|Apr 4, 2001, 12:41 AM||#1|
277 flights since Mar 2001
Re: Land Mark Movie
You know I beleive that this is the first movie that adresses the relationship between science and religeon. You know this movie really shows that the two really conflict with each other. Science is based on reason, logic, laws, princebles etc.... while all religeon asks for is excactly the oppsite. Unquestioned faith in the utter absence of fact. But here's the wonder of the movie, when the scientist travels to another area of some sorts who was an unquestioned atheist proves herself right, you konw about fact and everything, how she became religeous (probably) after that experience. You know im starting to note that. In 2010 the discoveries brought two (almost at war) mations togather. Contact brought religeon and science togather. And then there is the space race during the cold war, it didnt end the cold war, but it led to two nation comopeting in a useful manner to create some thing good.
|Apr 6, 2001, 01:01 PM||#2|
7 flights since Mar 2001
Location: Merced County, California
science and religion
This story is about the sociology of science before it is about religion and science, although it could be about both. The world of science is also a place where there is a great deal of social pressure. The nightmarish things that can happen to the people who are trying to pursue a career in science can be worse than what can happen in Hollywood, and I know of what I speak in both cases.
Scientists are under a lot of pressure to confine religion to Sunday and keep it out of anything that happens during the week. And those who fail to do so are possibly putting themselves in jeopardy in their careers. So I think a lot of them respond by taking an anti-metaphysical and anti-religious position.
Another thing we have to remember is that scientists are also people with a job to do, often a very time-consming one at that. There are probably many of them are interested in the cosmic implication of what they study and in the wonder of it all, but they are willing to leave the issue to theologians, philosophers, and people like us.
My immediate impression of Palmer Joss was that he was a hustler, not that I wouldn't do the same thing if I had the chance. If I'm better than him, it is only slightly, and I have had two more decades to work on it than he did. I do give credit to people like that for being real in their beliefs, and who is to say that a "person of faith" has to be Mr. Goody Two Shoes anyway?
To me, the Palmer Joss character was a white Jesse Jackson. But let me say that I give people like Jackson and the Rev. Al Sharpton credit for being real in their faith as well, and let's remember that they, unlike Palmer, are actual people.
Let me tell you people in this forum something. You discuss science fiction films with me, this one or any other, and it's going to be like throwing waist-high fastballs Mark McGwire. I'm going to get around it, and it's going to go.
|Apr 9, 2001, 02:00 AM||#3|
277 flights since Mar 2001
Well that put's it into place. I noticed through the movie how the religeous ppl were either way too radical or just came off as car sales men. But the movie really killed itself (if their trying to promote atheism) when Jodie Foster said she doesnt know if there's life out there, but it should would be a lonely place. There was spirituality in that movie whether he likes it or not.
|Mar 19, 2002, 12:04 PM||#5|
1,044 flights since Mar 2002
Location: Sasebo, Japan
Re: Land Mark Movie
Ugh, science and religion? Which to choose? I opt for neither. Solitude, that is the way to go.....
|Apr 4, 2007, 10:09 AM||#6|
1 flights since Apr 2007
Some Scientific Thuths Of Koran
· The atmosphere on Earth
· Animal Biology
· The infinitely small
· Extra terrestrial life
· The creation
· Creation of the fauna
· The black holes
On behalf of God the Clement and merciful
I request God to forgive me for the bad interpretations of the Koranic verses I would make.
I do nothing but try by my modest contribution and my limited knowledge to help my brothers of race believe in Our Creator and avoid eternal sufferings.
I request God that what will follow would be like a spark which will light their heart up. Amine.
The first message that God learned to the prophet Mohamed (sws) is “Read”. These four letters have an enormous direction. By its intermediary, He asked us to seek for knowledge.
Then all along the Koran, He exhorted us to look at ourselves and around us: how we were created and of what we were created? How He created the Earth and everything that composes it as well as the sky?
To better know Our Creator, He asked us to better know his creation. He gave simple signs for people of the 14th century and complicated examples for people of our time and for the next generations. All that so we can believe in Him without any doubt, because He deeply wanted to avoid us momentary or eternal sufferings. It is the goal of the following facts.
Creation of the human being “Embryology”
The various phases of the development of the human embryo were discovered mainly during the last two centuries. Here is what the Koran (God) said about this more than 14 centuries ago.
Sourate “the believers” verses 12,13 and 14
“The first human being was created from a whole of fine earth * then of a fertilized cell (Noutfa) which was put in a safe place. * This cell was transformed into a kind of paste that is fixing on (Alaka), and then in foetus (Moudgha). From this foetus, the bones were formed and then covered with flesh. The creation is achieved when it was animated. Bless God, the best of the creators.” In another sourate, God said:
Sourate Azoumar verset 6 “The human being was created in three dark places"
First place :_The ovaries : birthplace of the ovule.
Second place : The Fallopian tubes : place of the fecundation of the ovule.
Third place : The uterus : place of the development of the foetus.
And the prophet (s.w.s) said in a checked hadith :
“Each one created in the bosom of his mother was initially “Noutfa” during 40 days, “Alaka” the same length of time, then finally “Moudgha” also remaining in this state for forty days (120 days in all). Then God breathed the soul into this Moudgha. ”
The atmosphere on Earth
Sourate El anâame (herds) verses 125 and 126
“For the people God would want to enlighten, He will dilate their heart for Islam, and the ones He would want to mislay will have their chest oppressed, crushed as if they rose towards the sky. The abomination will be the division of the unbelievers. This doctrine belongs to God and it is true. Signs were given to those who are thinking.”
The more you go up in the sky the less oxygen you have. The chest is oppressed and it is difficult to breath at 3000 metres altitude.
This phenomenon was explained when the composition of the air could be analysed in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Sourate El hadj (the pilgrimage) Verse 73
“Ô! You the humans! A parabola is proposed to you, so listen to it: The ones you call upon apart from God, will not even create a fly, even if they make a union. And if this fly took something from them, this could not be taken back from it. How weak is the one who requires and what is required. ”
In their researches, the biologists (according to a documentary diffused on television in 1987) realized that to absorb a given matter a fly starts with sending a jet of saliva and immediately this matter is transformed and loses all its original nature. For example if sugar is mixed with the saliva of a fly, and if we try to recover this sugar, we will note that no trace of this sugar exists in this mixture even by using the material of the most recent laboratory. There were no analysis laboratories 14 centuries ago.
The infinitely sma
Sourate Saba verse 3
“…. Nothing escapes from the divine vigilance even if it has the weight of an atom in the sky or on the ground. Is it smaller or larger than an atom that already appears in the explicit book? ”
The discovery of the atom was made by “Michael Faraday” in 1832 and “the smaller than the atom”, the proton, the electron and the neutron were discovered at the beginning of the 20th century. God revealed this in the Koran 14 centuries before all the scientific statements. So people who believe only in human genius can think of it. They forget that it is God who put this science in the mind of the human being.
God said in another verse: Sourate Nouh (Noah)
“We created the human being in successive stages. ”
In the Seventies or the eighties, oceanographer J.Y Cousteau discovered at the bottom of the oceans an extraordinary current, a real water river whose temperature is colder than the water on the surface. This current goes down from the North Pole towards the equator. This discovery has to be added to that of the marine current on the surface, which goes up the equator towards North “the Gulf Stream” whose temperature, is higher compared to the other places of the ocean. In fact the navigators knew it since a very long time without however being able to explain it. At the time of the sailing boat, there was neither diving suit nor submarine where the human being could plunge to 20 or 30 metres deep.
If the prophet Mohamed (s.w.s) was the author of the Koran, how could He know that there is a marine current hundreds of metres deep?
Sourate In nour (the light) Verses 39 and 40
“The works of the infidels......... are similar to darkness of the deep seas, covered by waves. On the top of them there are other waves, and above them there are clouds. Darkness is on the top of other darkness. If you look at your hands, you will not even be able to see them. ”
Sourate El Forqan (the laws) Verse 53
“It is him who joined two seas, one made of pleasant fresh water to the taste; and the other salted and bitter, He placed between them a barrier, an insuperable limit”
At the beginning of 2005, we could see in the news of a French television that France made a drilling in the Mediterranean seabed (probably to look for oil) but they discovered a very important sheet of soft water. The power of the water jet arrived on the surface bubbling. This sheet of water is probably as big as the Mediterranean sea or maybe bigger, as the sheet under the desert of Sahara which is more than 1000 km wide and more than 2000 km long.
They stopped the drilling besides to preserve it for harder times. Is it what God refers to?
The discovery that the Earth is round and turns on itself and around the sun was made by Copernic at the 16th century and was confirmed by Galileo a few years later with his invention of the long sight. The clergy of the time who controlled all the Occidental countries said that he was a heretic. For them the Earth is flat and the sun turns around it. Here is what the Koran said, words from the Creator of the universe:
Sourate Ali Imran (the family â' imran) verse 27
“You make follow the night by the day and the day by the night. ”
Sourate Azoumar (groups) verse 5
“He created the sky and the Earth in the Truth. He rolled up the night over the day, and the day over the night. He said the sun and the moon are each one going towards a given term. He is the Almighty, isn’t He? The one who forgives. ”
In all logics, this can be done only in one circular motion.
And in another sourate El anbiyaa (the prophets):
“It is Him who created the day and the night, the sun and the moon are sailing in the space. ”
This idea of movement of our solar system is also a recent discovery. The scientists calculated that our solar system sails in the space at 852.000 km/h.
And here is another scientific statement that was carried out for the moment only partially.
Sourate Yussuf (Joseph) Verse 4
“When Joseph said to his father: I saw eleven planets and the sun and the moon are bowing down me. ”
Until March 15th 2004, the world knew only 9 planets of our solar system and from this date, via the telescope “Hubble”, the 10th planet was discovered and called “Sedna”. It is 13 billion kilometres from the Earth. And most of these planets were discovered these last four centuries with the help of the telescope. The 11th planet remains to be discovered. (I think that it must be between Pluto and Sedna because there is more than 6 billion kilometres empty space between these two planets.)
If the Koran was not a divine revelation, who could tell Mohamed (s.w.s) about the existence of the planets and their number ?
The astronomers of the 20th century thought that the universe at the beginning was made of gas and there was the great explosion (the Big-bang). While cooling, the galaxies and their solar systems were formed. Here is what Our Creator said :
Sourate Foussilette (Detailed) Verse 11
“He then turned to the sky which was a smoke...”
If the Koran was the work of Mohamed (s.w.s), who could tell him that the universe was made of gas billion years ago?
Sourate El forqan (laws) Verse 21
“Blessed the One who placed constellations in the sky. The One who placed a torch (sun) and the moon that lights (which reflects the light). ”
If the Koran was from Mohamed (s.w.s), how did he know that the moon did nothing but reflect the light?
Sourate At taarik (the way) Verses 11-15
“By the sky that will retract (to return to itself), by the ground that cracks, this is the truth and not a frivolous speech. ”
The universe will continue to expand as noted by the astrologer “Hubble” in 1933. When it will reach the limits of the sky, it will return to itself and that will be the end. And God is the best.
Sourate Al Anbiyaa (The prophets) Verse 104
“The day we will fold the sky as we fold the page of a book, as we began the first creation, we will start it again, it is a promise which concerns us and we will achieve it. ”
Sourate Ya-sin Verse 37
“The sun goes through its career until its final destination, as it was ordered by the Powerful and Clever God.”
Here is another discovery of the 20th century. Like all the stars our sun goes towards its destruction. It may happen very late but it will be the case one-day: it is what we call the end of the world of our solar system.
The scientists observed explosions of stars and their solar systems. Are we the only ones that God created in this great universe? Or we are just a part of his creation. In this case, the end of the universe and the day of the resurrection will be when Allah will put an end to the entire universe. And God is the best.
Sourate El qiyama (the end of the world) Verses 7-10
“When the eyes will be dazzled, and the moon eclipsed, the sun and the moon will be gathered...”
Our sun will explode and absorb all our solar system. This is what the scientists call “a supernova” before dying out and becoming “a dwarf star”.
Sourate that is Ineluctable (will arrive with certainty) Verses 75 and 76
“No! I swear by the fall of the stars * and it is here a solemn oath, if only you knew it ”
According to me (God is the best) this confirms the former hypothesis. There is one end of the World and one end of the worlds (God forgive me if I made a mistake on the interpretation of the verses)
A German geologist discovered in 1962 that the mountains have four and a haft time under ground their height above. For example a mountain of 1000 metres is 4500 metres deep. And that is the Koran said 14 centuries ago.
Sourate El-Anbiya (the prophets) verse 31
« We placed beneath the mountains sort of pillars to consolidate their steps. »
Sourate Ettalaq (the repudiation) verse 12
« Allah created seven skies and seven earths… »
According that God created billions of other solar systems that we could never reach except if we travel at least at the speed of the light (300 000 km/s). In that case there must be billions of planets that have the same characteristics of the Earth and not only seven Earths. The nearest solar system is the star Sirius that is 5 years/light from Earth. I tend to think that it’s about our planet and that it is constituted of seven superposed layers like the seven skies. And God is the best.
4 solid layers
1 liquid core
2 fizzy layers (Troposphere and stratosphere)
Sourate Ar-rűm verse 41
« Pollution appeared on Earth and in the sea, as a result of the actions accomplished by the men, so that God could let them see the consequences of their actions. They may come back (to him).”
Men are modifying the nature with genetic experiments on plants, animals and even on human beings. They poison the atmosphere, the earth and the seas with all kind of chemical products. One day they will suffer from their actions done before.
Extra terrestrial life
After created the Earth, the atmosphčre and created its flora, fauna, God said to the angels: «... I will put a Kalif on the Earth… » The angels answered: “ You will put someone who will pollute and shed blood.” Chapter: the cow verse 30
The angels did not know the future (privilege of God only), so it may be something like that on other planets.
And in the chapter: Al Choura (the advice) verse 29
“ Among His signs, the creation of the sky, the Earth and the other creations, if He wanted He could put them altogether.”
So it means that God (and it is logical according to this huge universe) created other forms of life on other planets and God is the best.
Chapter : Yasine verse 36
« Praise to the One who created all the couples growing on Earth, from themselves and from the things they don’t know.”
Everything God created is composed of two or more elements, which are complementary. From the atom (proton, electron and neutron) to the human being (man and woman) and in their own body: from the cell which is composed of mitochondria and vacuoles to their AND.
Everything existing on Earth: fauna, flora and so on…, all we know and we don’t, is the component of something else. There is “one” only if we put these elements altogether. Unicity belongs only to God.
It is not since a long time that humanity knows all this. Is there still any doubt in you on the divine fact of the Koran and on what we will find when we will return to Him?
Creation of the fauna
Sourate Azoumar(the groups) verse 6
“He created the people from only one being and from this” one” He pulled out his mate. Then followed eight couples of animals.”
All the terrestrial fauna had evoluted from these eight couples. The “famous” theory of Darwin on the evolution of the species is true except for the human beings; even if they were primitive at the beginning they were still human beings.
My idea about black holes, according to the Koran
God said in the Koran: sourate Luqman verse 10
“He built the sky with pillars you can not see.”
So pillars composed with material we cannot see support the canopy of heaven.But they really exist.
The scientists have studied what they call « black holes » surrounded by a big cosmic material. My idea is that these black holes are in fact pillars in the sky, why not? (God is the best). And the material going around them is like everything that composes the Universe. The planets are going around their star or sun and the stars form the galaxies. Everything is turning around this wonderful energetic material called the pillars of the sky. As the Creator said: “all is travelling in the space”, with an unimaginable precision and at the same stabilised speed. God said: “This is the creation of Allah, show me what the others you invocated have done, that the unfair people are in the wrong way” Sourate Luqman verse 11
As I said before, it is just a hypothesis I made when I studied the Koran and I pray God to forgive me if I made mistakes. I wrote everything in this book to obey God who asked us by this first word “read”, we have to look for knowledge and obey to prophet Mohamed (s.w.s).
He asked us to pass on the divine message after him. I try to convince my fellows of the existence of God and that this life is just a step to eternal life.
If we are convinced by what it is told in this booklet is the fact of the Creator of the universe, so it has to be the same for all the Koran.
The Koran is a universal message for the entire humanity of a unique god, it has no associate, did not bear and was not bear and nothing looks like it. The base of this faith is:
“The messager believed on what was given by his Lord. He and the believers trusted God, the angels, all the holly writings (the books) and all his prophets. No differences are made among them, and they said: we heard and we obeyed. We beg your pardon and towards you is the final return.”
Chapter “the cow” verses 285 and 286
Our destiny is on your hands. Believing and obeying to the Creator and his laws will drive us to an eternal life of felicity that is above everything you can imagine. In the opposite, we will be submitted to eternal or temporary sufferings, in function of the divine clemency.
We must not judge Islam through the actions of certain Muslim people who ignore the real sense of Islam (peace and submission to God).
God dictates us to have good relationship with everybody except if you were hurt, and even in this case we must not hurt children, women and old people who are weak.
He imposed us laws that we must not go through, knowing that his creatures are always attracted by the bad and the contre nature. If we analysed correctly his laws we could see that they were made for our good and a life in perfect harmony with the nature.
Try to study the Koran by yourself and make your own point of view. Pray God to unlight you and help you understand. If you sincerely admitted that your former life was not so right, God would forgive you and even more He would transform your bad actions into good ones and this will be a new birth for you “Amine”.
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