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Old May 13, 2010, 09:09 AM   #511
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

Yeah, the mother was some piece of work. I found it difficult to sympathize with anything the bitch did after bashing that woman's head in 60 seconds after she gave birth. Oh wait, did she not say "I'm sorry about this" before she caved the woman's skull in. Well then, I guess it's okay.
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Old May 13, 2010, 09:32 AM   #512
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

In the mother's pocket, crazy mother found a list of names.

Marcus
Michael
Anthony
Tim
Jacob
Smoke Monster


She just made the logical choice and went with the only other underlined name. Most times she just called them Smokey and the Bandit.

Agreed--big letdown. They could have gone anywhere with this episode. They could have picked any loose end and gone to town creatively... light in a cave isn't that impressive. It didn't quite work like the light in the suitcase from pulp fiction but it's basically the same plot device.





"Goddamn, what is it!?
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Old May 14, 2010, 07:20 AM   #513
mack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd
It didn't quite work like the light in the suitcase from pulp fiction but it's basically the same plot device.


... .. .... no he didnt!

I couldnt help wondering if the whole thing was designed to poke fun at those of us who overanalyze right v. wrong. It really just isnt that deep, and the writers just threw a jumbled up mystical hail mary on this one. If the episode was truly meant to be as deeply philosophical as some seem to believe it is, they could have done a better job, as it feel FAR short of the necessary discussions.

For example -
1. if Bad Mommy's point is that humanity is evil, then why is it worth saving (assuming "the light" is what keeps humanity alive)?

2. Esau's point about the evils of humanity (e.g. "Mother was right" / greed/lust/hate/stupidity, etc.) sounded like the mere trials of existence, and thus a lame excuse to obliterate them to me. humanity is flawed. Its what makes us human. So following this line of thinking means that Bad Mommy is simply tasked not with destroying humanity, but with saving humanity from itself. REALLY? Now Bad Mommy is God/dess? I honestly dont think the writers thought this far ahead.

3. how far is one really willing to go for their "righteous cause?" honestly. Is Bad Mommy's philosophy really "I'll kill you to stop you from killing yourselves?" REALLY? That's so.....basic that I cant help but wonder who was laughing at us all in this experiment. The whole fanatic/zealot angle is so trite. In fact, Id go so far as to say that the good-becoming-bad struggle is somewhat cliche in films days, and it appears to me that the episode was intended to express that Jacob's Camp doesnt necessarily have the high ground in terms of outright murder of random unsuspecting NORMAL people. you know. the same thing that Esau did in Sundown.

but lets fast forward. CLEARLY the up to date fight between Jacob and Esau has much more venom & vitriol than the heartbroken/felt scenes we saw in this ep, so something had to have happened to dig them both in further to their sides and against each other.

and as to Jacob/Esua - the birth order is wrong, but the rest of it tracks so far. Im inclined to think that they're not really being true to any one religion/mystical idea. seems like they're throwing anything up against the wall and seeing what sticks.
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Old May 14, 2010, 08:43 AM   #514
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

The birth order was wrong, yes, and Jacob didn't grab Esau's foot during birth - but you have to admit, they certainly have throw a great deal of the Jacob/Esau thing in there - Jacob fair haired, smooth, hairless skin - Esau dark, hairy, earthy; Jacob favored by the mother (sort of), Esau embraced by his father's people. Of course, then the metaphor sort of falls apart.

So the island is filled with "good" light which somehow corks "evil" but some of that evil escaped in the form of black smoke which eventually manifested itself in the body of Esau - a body that, for some reason, is not allowed to harm Jacob, hence the long, centuries search for another body (Locke) without said restrictions - the "loophole." I get the sneaking suspicion this weeks so-called penultimate episode and next weeks grand finale will focus on explaining the role of the candidates and what happens to them and the island. Does it not feel like they're done explaining what I call the "old" mysteries - like how the yellow light works, how the island can move, how it can initiate time travel, what exactly was going on at the SWAN station, etc.
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Old May 15, 2010, 07:17 PM   #515
Tack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

What about when the mom says I've made it so you cant hurt each other? Jacob KILLS his brother. is that not hurting him? I don't know, am I being nit picky here?

as for mysterious light, I think the lights went out when the smoke monster came out. I'm going to say there cant be light without darkness kinda thing happening there.

I'm really hoping we get to see what each of the stations were really working together toward.
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Old May 19, 2010, 09:02 AM   #516
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

So last nights ep could have been titled "Kill Everyone Left Who Doesn't Matter."

It bothers me that we're 2.5 hours from the end and the sidewaysverse, while seeming a little closer to resolution with Desmond sort of herding everyone together (reminds me way too much of Ben's gathering of the Oceanic Six in season five) for some big revelation. I admit, I have no clue how this is all going to come together now that events on the island seem pretty much resolved - Jack is the new Jacob, he must protect the light and kill Esau/Smokey/Locke - I will predict that Jack or Sawyer will have to sacrifice himself to destroy Smokey and save the light and the other will stay on the island as its protector. The obvious choice is Sawyer great sacrifice, moving death, at last overcoming his evil and shady tendencies by saving the world, Jack left to guard the island for the next 2000 years, Ben dead, Claire dead, Hurley and Kate sailing back to the world. Desmond...well, who knows.

Personally, I'm hoping they don't go with the obvious - Jack or Hurley dies, Sawyer left to take Jacob's place.

I am excited - there are tons of surprises coming. Just think, in five days it will all be over.
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Old May 21, 2010, 01:21 AM   #517
Tack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

Jack dies, sawyer and kate get to leave the island to take care of Sun's baby. Hurley becomes the new jacob.
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Old May 21, 2010, 04:22 AM   #518
mack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

lets hope so, Tack. lets hope so!
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Old May 23, 2010, 10:33 AM   #519
Tack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

You guys doing anything fun to ring in the series finale?
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Old May 24, 2010, 08:32 AM   #520
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

My sister and niece came over, that was about it. Wasn't planning on 4.5 hours but we managed.

So, what did you guys think? Satisfied? Pissed off? All in all, now that I've had time to digest the finale I think I'm good with LOST. They took the series to the only viable place left to take it - the afterlife. I have to give them props for having the guts to leave specifics answered with vague generalities and plenty to speculate upon.

First, no, I do not think the LOSTies were dead all along, killed in the original crash. This hardly explains the presence of Desmond and most especially Penny (who never set foot upon the island) in the church or Ben outside it. I think Hurley's comment to Ben is key, paraphrase "Dude, for what it's worth, you were a great number two." So it seems the flash-sideways were the purgatory/heaven-hell-halfway-house we all speculated the island might be and we witnessed this phenomenon from Jack's point of view. I also found it interesting that Kate tells Jack "I missed you so much." This clearly implies that Kate, having escaped the island, lived a long and possibly happy life but never got over her one true love. The events on the island were real, their lives were real, the flash-sideways were, as stated, a world the characters created to deal with crossing over, with moving on - a seemingly perfect life that, in the end, was not as fulfilling, meaningful, and as valuable as the flawed, tragic lives they lived in reality, lives they not only came back to one by one, but lives they embraced and in the end celebrated. Even in tragedy they all had a purpose and a destiny and each one fulfilled it the best way he or she could...everyone it seems, except for Ben, who fittingly, even in the end, was reluctant to accept is fate as Number Two. Some people think that when we die our life flashes before our eyes - I suppose the final season represented this in a way, not their lives flashing before their eyes, but a perfect and meaningful life flashing before their eyes and despite having all they wanted coming up woefully short when compared to the much more meaningful lives they lived.

I still can't get over how the finale was insanely bittersweet yet hardly over emotional. To show all the couple together, smiling, happy and yet to know in reality they all met horrible, unhappy endings (with the possible exception of Rose and Bernard and Desmond and Penny). Think about it - Charlie and Claire: Charlie drowned, Aaron taken aware, Claire gone mad, Sayid and Shannon: one will placed bullet from Anna Lucia ended that pain train, Hurley and Libby: another well placed bullet from Michael, Sawyer and Juliette, Daniel and Charlotte, and God how can we forget Jack and Kate, the ultimate painful couple. In the end, did anyone really get to live happily ever after this side of death?

So yes, I may be in the minority but I think the finale delivered. Certainly it didn't answer all my questions but really, how could it? I was very satisfied, very emotional, and definitely felt closure.

Thanks LOST, it's been one hell of a ride. I don't think TV will ever be this good again.

Last edited by HighWiredSith : May 24, 2010 at 10:18 AM.
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Old May 24, 2010, 04:40 PM   #521
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

The Final Shot in the church:


Going left to right
Top Center: Christian Shepherd
Back Left: Boone, Juliette, Sawyer
Back Right: Desmond, Penny, Hurley, Libby
Middle Left: Sayid, Shannon, Bernard, Rose
Middle Right: Charlie, Aaron, Clair, Sun, Jin
Front Left: Locke
Front Right: Jack and Kate

So you've got all your original LOSTies minus Michael and Walt
Tailies Bernard and Libby but not Echo or Ann Lucia
Other Juliette but not Ben
Desmond the constant
Penny who never set foot on the island
None of the freighter four (Miles, Lupidus, Charlotte, Farraday)


BTW - loved Kate's like "Christian Shepherd? Are you serious?" What a shame the finale had more classic LOST humor then every episode of the uberserious season six combined.
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Old May 26, 2010, 10:56 PM   #522
Tack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

Well I cried, not sure if it was more a feeling of connection with Jack and his Dad or just that I miss my dad.
I felt satisfied with the end. Its taken me several days to work through it in my mind. it was a fairly happy ending for the bleak prospects that were left with who was going to live.
Nice to see all of the characters coming together to move on.

I'll miss it a lot.
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Old May 27, 2010, 06:55 AM   #523
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

I am so ****ing glad that I did not watch this show
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Old May 28, 2010, 06:52 PM   #524
Tack
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

good for you SF. Maybe someday you will.
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Old Jun 4, 2010, 10:14 AM   #525
HighWiredSith
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Re: Lost- you are watching it right?

The FINAL explanation:

LOST, Explained from the Inside

Note: Lest there be any confusion, as much as I would love to have worked on LOST, I didn't write the below. It was apparently penned by someone at Bad Robot.



First … The Island:


It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people’s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a “Protector”. Jacob wasn’t the first, Hurley won’t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.

Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still … Dharma’s purpose is not “pointless” or even vague. Hell, it’s pretty blantent.


Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his “candidates” (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of “candidates” through the decades and letting them “choose” which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn’t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector — I know that’s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won’t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.


In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he’d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we’ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on …


Now…

Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least — because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer’s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we’re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it’s not exactly the best word). But these people we’re linked to are with us duing “the most important moments of our lives” as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It’s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.


The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this “sideways” world where they exist in purgatory until they are “awakened” and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show’s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own “Sideways” purgatory with their “soulmates” throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That’s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren’t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.


It’s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events — not JUST because of Jacob. But because that’s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that’s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.


But the writer’s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways “purgatory” with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died — some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley’s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are “awakened” and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.


They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren’t in the chuch — basically everyone who wasn’t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here’s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It’s possible that those links aren’t people from the island but from their other life (Anna’s parnter, the guy she shot — Roussou’s husband, etc etc).


A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.


But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church … and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.


For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I’ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I’ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.


In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don’t touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story — even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
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