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Pilot's Mess [chit-chat zone]

This is the forum to get to know your fellow pilots and the ONLY place to talk about everything else not really relevant to sci-fi movies, including your personal loves and interests. A true pilot doesn't discuss these issues while on duty.

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Old Nov 1, 2004, 04:44 PM   #1
Demosthemighty
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Religion and idiots

I had a convorsation today with this little Southern Babtist christian kid in school. And he informed me that Jews, Muslims, Hindu's, Mormons, And even the Pope are all hellbound.

I asked him, "If a muslim kid was never taught anything different than the muslim religion, would he go to hell?"
His reply, "Yes. Not knowing any other religion is no excuse. He should know his religion is wrong by the way they worship."

I could only look at him in utter shock and disgust. Now, the pope is hellbound, according to this little prick. The ****ing POPE. He thinks catholics are going to hell becuase they have saints, which are, and i quote this kid, "Like the false idols." Aren't they christians also? Yes they are, but he thinks that they don't worship his god correctly.

I asked him, why Jews. Arent they God's chosen people? He said, they don't worship Jesus, so they are going to hell. Jesus was a friggin JEW. DAMMIT!! HE WAS A JEW HIMSELF!!!!! "It doesn't matter," he said "Jesus is the only way into heaven." So before Jesus was born, everyone went to hell because they were jews instead of christians?

Dear lord in heaven what is this world coming to, when a kid has this kind of opinion about people and he's only fifteen. That is the future of America, God help us.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 04:48 PM   #2
mack
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Question lets not.

Demos. Do you really want to go there? The kid was wrong in that he was inexact. You are also inexact, and like him, your incomprehension stems from a general lack of understanding.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 04:57 PM   #3
Demosthemighty
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Re: Religion and idiots

No, i understand plenty. My problem is that i'm to openminded, and i understand that his beliefs have stemmed from what has been shoved down his throat since he was probably two. And where does this inexactness come from? I felt that he was plenty exact in stating that everyone was going to hell but his little babtist branch of christianity. And I was exact in saying that he is a giant douche bag. And, i comprehend enough to know that what came out of his mouth is idiocy.

Mack, can i ask you, what would you think if someone said that crap to you? Would you shake their hand, and say, "My, what strong beliefs you have!", or would you have a reaction of .........................wow........just wow........

And yes, i want to go there.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:00 PM   #4
Darth Bob
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Re: Religion and idiots

having Religion is the biggest ****ing mistake mankind has ever made...

A good portion of wars are because of religion...

People set too much store in it...
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:01 PM   #5
Clay
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Re: Religion and idiots

I believe in god but I think organized religion is little more than a profit oriented buisness. Is god really this short on cash? Why does every denomination claim to be the ONLY true path to the creator? Sounds more like division than unity to me.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:06 PM   #6
Quintessa
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Re: Religion and idiots

Beliefs suck. If you have struck beliefs, and all the sudden you pull up to the pearly gates and guess what! You're completely wrong! You weren't even in the BALLPARK!

So, have morals, ideas whatever. Be good to people don't screw em over and PRESTO! You've got yourself one good soul. End of story.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:18 PM   #7
mack
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Re: Religion and idiots

Heathens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Demosthemighty
Mack, can i ask you, what would you think if someone said that crap to you? Would you shake their hand, and say, "My, what strong beliefs you have!", or would you have a reaction of .........................wow........just wow........

I would think s/he was an idiot. Somewhat bigoted in addition to that, but there you have it.

Quote:
And where does this inexactness come from?

I say inexact because he was wrong. I see what he was trying to say, but he was ill-informed. There are no means to justify his end.

His End:
Jews
Muslims
Hindu's
Mormons
Pope (read: Catholics) are all hellbound.

I have no problem with fervent religion, indeed, I expect all religions to have an element of fervor, because in my opinion, ALL religion is alienating when you really take time to figure out what you are into (people rarely do). Religion separates. Period.

The question for this guy becomes: why? Frankly Id love to have that conversation with him, as Id run circles around the poor guy (and it would be fun).

Inexact, because I think I know why he said that, and his reasoning is off. Provably so.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:40 PM   #8
narobi foss
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politics and religion. two things people get really werked up about without really knowing anything about what they are talking about.
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Old Nov 1, 2004, 05:41 PM   #9
Iwata
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Re: Religion and idiots

Bah.

As far as religion goes, I just leave everyone to whatever makes them unhappier.
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 01:46 AM   #10
Kieraganion
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Re: Religion and idiots

Agreed, organized religion is not my cup of tea. I grew up with no need for it, and I shall die with no need for it.

But for some one to be as stuck up, shallow/closed minded, and biased as that speaks poorly of the fundamentals most people are being raised with. I say that because I have ran into many people like the schmuck that Demos talked too. Most are rather innocent in their accusations and judgementalism, stating that it is all they know and/or were taught. Which only goes to strengthen my observation.






Quote:
So, have morals, ideas whatever. Be good to people don't screw em over and PRESTO! You've got yourself one good soul. End of story.

Quint, you're right on the mark.
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 05:27 AM   #11
Jove
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Re: Religion and idiots

Meh - religion is funny - especially when you get some guy like the Baptist you talked to, Demos.

The problem you'll get is that his beliefs are entirely unprovable one way or the other.
His reasoning may be off, but religious belief supercedes all reason - it is irrational in its very nature.

If he truly believes that everyone will go to hell for not believing in his religion then his Hell will be a very crowded place with some great entertainment

But to clarify one point, Demos - the Jews believe Jesus was the main prophet of God but not actually the son of God. Christians believe he was / is the actual son of God.


And Bob, religion was devised by the rulers to control the masses. It generally doesn't start wars but is more often than not the reason given to hide its true purpose.
World War 1 and 2 were not religious.
Gulf War 1 and 2, Vietnam war, Falklands conflict, Korea - not really religious at all.
Most "religious" wars, throughout the ages, are merely excuses for Empire building.
But I'm no history expert - so feel free to correct me
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 08:17 AM   #12
Demosthemighty
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Re: Religion and idiots

Quote:
The question for this guy becomes: why? Frankly Id love to have that conversation with him, as Id run circles around the poor guy (and it would be fun).


Believe it or not, Mack, its harder to do that than you think. He can't understand any point of view but his own, so you can't really make him understand anything. Its very frustrating.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with religion. As long as you keep an open mind and don't turn into that little prick. As far as my religion is concerned, i guess you'd call me a christian, but i've formed my own opinions that are very different from any christian denomination out there(opinions that have gotten me kicked out of a church before )
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 09:17 AM   #13
HighWiredSith
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Re: Religion and idiots

Quote:
Originally posted by Demosthemighty


Believe it or not, Mack, its harder to do that than you think. He can't understand any point of view but his own, so you can't really make him understand anything. Its very frustrating.


Tell me Dem, when is the last time anyone said or did anyting to change your point of view? You are frustated, so is he. You call him closed minded and yet so are you. You muse at his irrationality and inability to see his own closemindedness and yet suffer the same yourself.

The real question is this - why do his beliefs bother you so much?
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 10:10 AM   #14
mack
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Re: Religion and idiots

Sith, you hit it dead on, buddy.

Ignorance is rife. On both sides. Still, religious zealots can be very offensive and touch all those little buttons inside that sends a man (or woman) through the roof. It rarely sends me through the roof because Im not as misinformed.

Youd be surprised Demo at how many people (on both sides) are misinformed. You included.

A good approach to these situations is to take the attitude that you arent going to change the world, and certainly not a overzealous religious person. I meet offensive people whose viewpoint I dont agree with all the time, and dont we all? And they arent all religious, so the only reason one would be overly taken aback at religious people is because they want to change them.

Get it through your head that you arent going to change them, and all will be well.



Trust me. The only way you can change a super religious person who actually believes in what they say is by FACTS. And most of the time, even that wont help, it has to be RELIGIOUS facts. And Im sorry, most people who have a problem with religious beliefs of any kind generally forswear any/all knowledge of religious facts, and are therefore ill-informed and unable to persuade an erroneous religious person otherwise.

That was MY point.
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Old Nov 2, 2004, 11:00 AM   #15
Iwata
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Re: Religion and idiots

I think religious people fail to see how absurd it is for other people to grasp the concept of miracles, priests and winger-angels.

On the other hand, "other" people often fail to see that religion is more than a safeguard in life to religious people, and that it's something that, being a matter of faith, defies logic by its very existence.

Two extremelly different views.
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