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Pilot's Mess [chit-chat zone]

This is the forum to get to know your fellow pilots and the ONLY place to talk about everything else not really relevant to sci-fi movies, including your personal loves and interests. A true pilot doesn't discuss these issues while on duty.

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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:17 PM   #1
Quintessa
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Quotes, I have so far.

I really haven't dome much... And a this is mostly for my own use as a religious pondering person. I really enjoy the debate of ethics. This is what I have so far. HELP ME!!! POst it on the othe rthread though...
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:18 PM   #2
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Human rights

On cloning…
Also, a clone is still another mouth to feed in an already overpopulated world. - Mattman187


I believe we have too many people on the planet already.

It is not that cloning the people would be bad. It is how we will do it, and what purpose. I believe we will again become more insensitive with the cloning. It is not difficult to imagine that there will be clones, but only for our selfish purpose. Maybe you can clone yourself, and have a lifetime supply of organs and the parts to replace, lengthening your life. It sounds wonderful, but stored somewhere, is your clone, without a true life, but she or he is still human, a person, and you live off them, like the most predatory of alien.

Clones will be human, but they will not be treated as humans. We only have to look at eastern Europe and the treatment of women there now. It is horrible. Imagine for a moment, not having enough suicide bombers, you can always clone thousands of them, or thousands of Hitlers.

I believe it will come. It is but one more fight that good, decent human beings will have to make.

There should be no cloning. We are not God. We have showed all too often that we fall so very short of this level.
Cricket


From a religous point of view, maybe this is destined. Sounds like a good description of the Anti-Christ. Let's get on with the Rapture!
videonaut


Why would you give your property human rights? If you paid for it.....its gonna serve your purposes, right?
Mack

On animal rights/blame for a contagion being released Movie 28 days later
Humanitys self destructive tendancies tied in which curiosity and arrogance on all parts.
Seraph


The point was in case you missed it, it doesn't matter who did what or when there's the same root behind all of it, innate curiosity (animal study/anti animal testers attempt to undo) and arrogance of thinking you know best (freeing the animals/testing on them). Humans always screw humans.
Seraph

The scientists and the greenpeace activists, can be thought of using the metaphorical chicken vs the egg. In that it's hard to put fault on just one of the groups.
Kieraganion


And what if the point of the movie (political/moral point anyway) is that true rage begets rage, and is a contagion (ie road rage).
Mack


Animal testing is always wrong no mater how you look at it. If we need to test something and feel the need to test it on our closest living relatives (chimps) then why don't we just take a drive down to the prison and gather up a few bad people (rapest, murderes, pedophiles, ect...)??? I think that would solve alot of problems right there
dinochick


You believe it is ok to invade the body of another human being against their will and to test things on them? To violate their civil rights? How is that any different from telling a woman she cant have an abortion? (i make no judgements on THAT issue)
Mack


isnt that what a rapist does to its victims? so why not do it back to them?
Merlin


I agree.
The death sentence is meant to be a deterrent and yet it has made no difference whatsoever to the crime rate in the states
Pilgrime


The Iraqis do not. It's a consequence of indoctrination and anti-Western mentality, fueled by watching cruise missiles land on their backyards.
Iwata


Now, which nations are due for some mentality alteration. The Arab nations for sure; India with its backward hinduism (that's a bloody revolution in the waiting); China had its mentality alteration and now it's doing a good job changing the metality of those backward Tibetans; and lastly the South American nations are due for some more mentality change.
B RH POS


You actually sanction the slaughter of MONKS?! That's beneath human.
Iwata


If it's for a healthy and progressive cause then I'd acquiesce to the public hanging of the catholic pope.
B RH POS


I guess POS must consider Tian-a-men the perfect crowd control methodology.

You're too extreme to be true.
Iwata


I dont see how she could possibly have an academic life as her views are extremely uneducated.
Pilgrime


On religion…
Religon is just an excuse to be really nasty to other ppl
Darth bob


I believe there is one God, but I do not believe in any of the rules that man made and called religion.
xXx


Spiritual but not religious. And of the school that "There are more things in Heaven and Earth (Horatio), than are dreamt of in your philsophy."

Pet Peeve: Those who think they have a corner on the truth.

Weigh it all (from Inner Voice to Buddha to Shiva), find what works for you, chuck what doesn't and build your own philosophy/faith. We are all unique; let's act like it. And since we're all unique, and well within our rights to act like it, let's cut out the "rows, flames, fights and wars" over our differences of opinion.

Death=Unity with the Creator. No obstructions; all questions answered. Simple as that. No pearly gates, streets of gold, fire, brimstone or any other human point of reference. Those are great analogies when used to make a point, but we should probably recognize them as such. If I had my druthers, we'd become one with the Cosmos; never-ending -- part and parcel of the Spirit from which we came. Don't know if that's actually the case, of course.

Sin. (Eeesh.) Morality vs. The Ways of the World. Another never-ending struggle. Think I'll answer that one in the next life. More time.

Retribution. Man, I hope there is such a thing. I don't see much in the way of Justice in THIS world. (I talk to the Great Spirit about that a lot actually. And, incidentally, there's nothing wrong with the term, "Great Spirit". It fits as well as any other. Actually better, IMHO.)

Paranormal: Everything is paranormal. But, seriously... I think we all have a little psychic twinkle and guess where I think its origins are? Yep. We're already connected; there's just an awful lot of crap in the way. Regarding "paranormal" (of the commercial variety): No comment. And rightfully so, I think.

So, who wants to take a shot at me? Bring It On.

BTW, how brave of you to tackle THE subject. I like you already.
Gareth


I've never heard of a militant athiest. I've heard of militant christians though, yet there are none on the poll
Floyd


I'm a fanatic [insert stupid religion here] devotee and certified God.

Seriously, I have no idea what I am. I used to be Roman Catholic, but now... I have no clue...
Iwata


I would consider Athiesm a Religion. It has its own system of beliefs and ways to explain things just like any other religion.
Jill_valentine


I wouldn't agree that those two points alone define a religion. Atheism, at least in every instance in which I have encountered it, has always been about disbelief in the unseen or unexplalained, an absence of faith in preference to fact and/or the observable. Athiests (at least those I have known) immerse themselves in science to the point where science becomes their religion, their way of explaining everything. Yet science is not a religion. Religion is about the belief in the unseen, faith in things not observed or proven in scientific terms. But science can only answer some of the questions that have plagued mankind. Religion is an attempt to answer those things that science, logic, and observation cannot effectively answer.
HighWiredSith


Hmm. Perhaps not in he strictest...English sense...errr. Well, no, I suppose you can't define athiesm as a religion. But I would consider it an equivalent. Just as the religious immediatly turn to their faith when they have difficulty in explaining something, Athiests immediatly seek a scientific explanation. Athiests can be as passionate about what they do/do not believe as believers. Just as Islam is incomprehensible to a lot of Christians, Faith is incomprehensible to many Athiests.
Jill_valentine


Aw man! I was in a chatroom the other day, and in came a militant Christian. He starts rowing with EVERYBODY including other Christians, but just to show you the depth of his arguement, when I told him I was an athiest, he told me to"Go to Hell with my Demon God Allah." Just with more capitals, and worse spelling.
Jill_valentine


an intresting quote on releigon


"If God did not exist then it would necessary to invent him
Darth bob


Religon is horse sh!t! Every religous person I know is angry, bitter, rude, and unhappy. I think back to one of the old threads where Ivanhoe said it best: "God to me is just like a caveman explaining lightning." You can't tell that to anyone who firmly believs in God though.

Religon started with politics (they have been seperated now) where someone or a small group of people found a way to control a society. They told everyone there is a God who gives rules and if you don't obey those rules, you will be tortured for all eternity. They then hired the best writers they could find to go to work. And ladadadadada...we are here now. So religon is and always was a governemnt conspiracy.

It's hard for me to say I don't believe in God anymore. It's hard to stop believing what you've been told everyday since day one and that's why so so many will always believe in God. So so many are afraid not to anyway. No point in me explaining any further of this absolute horse sh!t.
Jacker


Rather ironic, isn't it? You seem to be the one angry, bitter, rude, and unhappy. I am a religious person and am none of those things. But then again, I have enough sense not to enter into something as ineffectual as a religion/value debate and then get emotional about it.
HighWiredSith


God doesn’t play dice. Universe is a prefabricated simulation.
Ivanhoe


An Agnostic merely believes that you can not (currently) prove the existence or non-existence of God. Some Agnostics think it highly probable and some think it highly unprobable that a god, any god, exists. The fact is they believe you can not PROVE it and are unwilling to believe in either extreme.

For example - I think that it is quite probable that a God / Creator exists. I can't prove it and am unwilling to side with either until it is proven one way or another. I consider myself Agnostic. I'm actually also fairly apathetic about the whole idea as well. I just find this discussion quite interesting.

I would call you a "Theist".

the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thzm)
n.
Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world.

Does this answer your question?
Jove




Anyway, religon? Not my thang. I cannot fully deny the existence of God because I'd be no better then those who claim it.
Jacker


I would not deny another person their Religion, but personally I have difficulty believing in a higher power. I believe that Science can explain everything, just that some Science is as yet beyond us. I believe in no Paranormal, just more of Normal than we're used to.

In answer to an earlier question, yes, the thought of certain oblivion does comfort me. Somehow I have difficulty stomaching someone elses judgement, even if they are God, Elvis or even Keanu Reeves.

Actually, Keanu Reeves can do whatever he likes with me
Jill_valentine


You know, I've often thought that if the religious folks and the scientific folks would just get together, we'd have a lot more answers than we do right now. Isn't it strange that (generally speaking) they are so often at odds with each other.

Example: "If you're Christian, how can you say you believe in the theory of evolution?" I get that one a lot. And I have to explain that I don't believe in theory of evolution, I believe in the Theory of Adaptation. MY theory. Part evolution; part creation.

For example, Genetics has revealed what's become known as the "Master Gene", but no one knows just how it works. It is a FACT that species are altered over time. (Aside: I believe that Man and the Apes are actually separate branches of the tree, otherwise there wouldn't still be a "missing link". The DNA happens to be pretty close, but distinct from way, way back. I don't believe we'll ever see it merging along the backward line, but I wouldn't discount the idea that it just might!)

I got thinking about that and realized -Hey!- the Great Spirit must have physical access to His creation or species wouldn't change over time to adapt to new environments. So, He must have a key. I imagine Him thinking (and hope He doesn't consider it sacreligious), "Oooo. THIS little fella won't survive if I don't give him the means to interact in this environment, so I'll just tweak the South American version of the racoon a little and give him a prehensile tail. Lots of trees there; he'll fare better that way." Turn the key. Simple, huh?

So many religious people believe that Creation stopped somewhere along the line, and of course, they're entitled to. (Scientists appear to be more open-minded about faith, than the religious are about science, I must say.)

But look at the evidence. Creation never stopped. It's happening right now; all around us. The birth of a star, the collision of galaxies - all giving rise to more Creation. I believe that (scientific) reality is actually on auto-pilot, following the physical, mathematical rules that God laid out for it and that He intervenes and adjusts the Creation whenever the need arises.

Of course, I could be wrong. But that's just my two cents.

Personally, there is too much wonder and purpose and beauty and design for me NOT to believe that there is a God. (What a puny word for Him.) I do understand the idea many have that maybe there's not. (I passed through the "There is no God" phase in my early twenties.)

Experience has so much to do with our beliefs, as you so eloquently pointed out in your prior post. If I hadn't experienced the presence of God, I might not believe in Him either. Like everything else, I guess, we have to be open to the idea first. After all, there must be some reason we're so damn curious about everything.
Gareth


quote:

Originally posted by HighWiredSith
Did you cuddle up to your scientific theories and find comfort in the fact that we are all evolved slime anyway so what does any of it matter???

No, I waited for Santa Claus to come back and make it all better. What I thought as I smelled the smoke was 'must be some God-fearing folk on a night on the town'. I was right too. And your God was on their side after all. didn't get 'the jew call' though.

And does it comfort you more to belive that you are a handfull of dirt animated by a cruel monster who would rather burn a town for jollies then do anything constructive, a mischeivous child who cultivates an ant farm only to flood it and watch the ants die in the hope that some would be stupid enough to build him a temple and that perhaps some of the more devious ants would get fat from the grains of suger brought there to honor Him?

And the fact that science (not scientists) is never sure of itself shows that the search for knoledge continues. The fact that your old myths remain static and grounded in a disproven model of the universe (no matter how much 'interpretation' you stuff in there) only shows how laughable it all is. But you are entitiled to your silly illusions as I am entitled to mine, as long as they don't hurt anybody in this lifetime.
SF_not_Sci-Fi


Well, it's not the dying that counts; it's how we live that matters.

My anaology of life is practicing for a stage play, or a computer game.

You have the chance to put in great effort for the final showdown, and it's up to you to go out and make that part yours.

You can explore the part fully, learn the lines and understand them, rather than just read them and do as you are told.

Inevitably though the play will end, or the game will finish-either through technical faults,own mistakes or by completing it.




Sorry for that bit of digression there.
The one……


Yes my beliefs comfort me. When you realize the true nature of our universe you see that everything is just a bunch of primary particle-waves swirling around. And nothing is actually important since it is all a prefabricated simulation. Emotions are just a way for someone to deal with it. But eventually everyone will face the truth.

Even your child’s death, even your death is just a circulation of matter. A child can’t cry-away the facts of life. But it can cry.
Ivanhoe


Here's an interesting commentary:

There is a class of people who, if they do not believe, must at least make a semblance of believing. This class, comprising all the tormentors, all the oppressors, and all the exploiters of humanity; priests, monarchs, statesmen, soldiers, public and private financiers, officials of all sorts, policemen, gendarmes, jailers and executioners, monopolists, capitalists, tax-leeches, contractors and landlords, lawyers, economists, politicians of all shades, down to the smallest vendor of sweetmeats, all will repeat in unison those words of Voltaire:

'If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.' For, you understand, 'the people must have a religion.' That is the safety valve.

There exists, finally, a somewhat numerous class of honest but timid souls who, too intelligent to take the Christian dogmas seriously, reject them in detail, but have neither the courage nor the strength nor the necessary resolution to summarily renounce them altogether. They abandon to your criticism all the special absurdities of religion, they turn up their noses at all the miracles, but they cling desperately to the principal absurdity; the source of all the others, to the miracle that explains and justifies all the other miracles, the existence of God. Their God is not the vigorous and powerful being, the brutally positive God of theology. It is a nebulous, diaphanous, illusory being that vanishes into nothing at the first attempt to grasp it; it is a mirage, an ignis fatuus that neither warms nor illuminates. And yet they hold fast to it, and believe that, were it to disappear, all would disappear with it.

God and the State by M. Bakunin: (pp. 17-18)
SF_not_Sci-Fi


For every disease we supposedly cure we create a dozen more, many times as lethal as the one we irradicated. We've pushed the life span up a dozen years, the infant mortality rate down a few, but would you consider that a monumental achivement? So we live a few years longer now and spend more time sucking resources away from others and die from things that a hundred years ago we would have never known we had. This sounds very negative and I don't deny that we live in very comfortable times thanks to the techniclogical advances of our age. But this technology is a house built on sand and it would shock the average person to know just how little it would take to bring it all crashing down around us. Then where would we be? Most of us would be dead.
HighWiredSith


quote:

Originally posted by HighWiredSith
It's about the basic ability to understand, improvise, and adapt. 99% of us would think our world fell apart if we lost our job or our house burned down or the transmission went out on our car. It breaks, we buy another one.



Please, HWS, you have no evidence of prior societies' ability to understand, improvise and adapt to be able to say that our society is worse. If you do, where is it?

And where is the evidence to support your "fact" that man was more intelligent 2000 years ago? Or do you expect us to believe this the way you claim that we all merely believe what people tell us? Or are you merely reporting what you have been told?

I agree with you, however, about medicine, so I'm not going to add to that.


quote:

The goal of science, at one time, was to move toward a greater understanding of our world, how it works, what its composed of. In our day, however, science has become a job of smoke and mirrors, a race to see who can invent the most outrageous and unprovable theory.



And yet we now have the most accurate understanding of our planet, our world, our solar system, our galaxy and our universe than we have ever had. We can look back further in time than at any point in history.

quote:

Theories are thrown around like fact with no more proof to them than your most basic of religious principles. Yet in religion, this is not a contradiction, it's the basic principle of faith. Today's science requires just as much faith, probably more, and that, no matter how you slice it, it contradictory and ironic.



The fundamental difference between the two is that Scientific theories are thrown up to be proven right or wrong. There is no point in a theory if it is not shown to be either correct or not.
Religious faith, on the other hand, is an unprovable matter. It can never be put on the test-bed and proven one way ot the other. Religion relies on their eternally unprovable claims to supply the mysticism and power of their Religion.
Jove


quote: HighWirdSith
There is no proof that evolution is true and that absence of proof should, in itself, disprove it.

Absense of proof disproves things?
Floyd


I gots to be honest, Highwired is the only person I've come across (ok, so I don't come across many) who believes in God and Heaven and Hell, and yet, is very logical in all his beliefs. It's outstanding and I commend him for it. He is the antime. I'm convinced he's the smarter, well rounded, and better version of myself. I envy Highwiredsith.

did I just say that out loud?

PS: Religon bad, athiesm or agnostic works. Yet, religon isn't somethign that can just be "yanked." You know?
Jacker


Evolution HAS been proven. I don't see why there is any reason to deny this. It has ceased to be a theory, and it is now reality. Before I prove it to you, do you know the story of Darwin's finches? Easily the most brilliant and amazing story to hit the world with such a shock. If you read up on this, I am sure this alone will convince you. If you still choose to ignore it then keep in mind that evolution does not disprove creationism. Creationism could be real, but it is a fact that organisms evolved from one another. Example: the Corona virus. This virus changed its way of infection to adapt to humans. It used to be a dog virus, but now it is affecting humans especially in Asia.
ev·o·lu·tion n. Biology.
Change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations, as a result of natural selection acting on the genetic variation among individuals, and resulting in the development of new species.
This virus has changed to adapt and become different and it is able to attack humans now. Evolution means that organisms change over time. The Corona virus has changed over time, along with many other organisms (I only gave this one as an example). Convinced?
Pinky


quote: HighWiredSith
2. You mention lakes and rivers and oceans, yet this would imply that most animals whose reamins became fossils ended up in water. How would you explain this phenomenon?



There's a lot of water on our planet. Due to the shifting of the earth's surface over time, and melting and freezing of ice caps, the water level may gave changed several times, leaving entire continents exposed or flooded. In fact, the place that you sit right now, was perhaps almost certainly covered by a body of water at one time or another.
Floyd


Moral , when taken out of the human perception is non existent. There is nothing in our world that will stop you from choking your baby to death or have sex with your parents. You can do it. The universe doesn't mind if you don't mind. The whole point is that in order to progress and survive humans have agreed to enforce laws , moral as well as other. When a moral rule starts to be irrelevant to our survival and progress it becomes obsolete. We witness this every day. We are the ones that have the ability to change it we are the ones who make them.
Ivanhoe


Like I said, explaining and reducing a thing does not alter its nature: a clock is made of clockwork, but it is still used to keep important appointments, no matter hw reletive the importance of these is.
SF_Not_Sci-Fi


This is a quote from HighWiredSith


Do we really? You miss the entire point. You, my friend, don't know anything. You know what you were told in school or what you read in a science book or saw on television. My point is this, you trust the science you have been given by others, you trust it's true and valid and not once have you ever tested these theories on your own. And I am not in any way stating that everything we know from science is wrong, but I am suggesting that it could be and even further some of it is.





Now me.
Have you ever tested religion? Do you know anything besides what they taught you in church read in the bible or saw on televagilical. You cannot trust religion given to you by others, you trust it's true and valid and not once have you ever tested these beliefs on your own. And I am not in any way stating that everything we know from religion or church is wrong, but I am suggesting that it could be and even further some of it is.
Quintessence or quintessa.







Curse YOU MACKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:20 PM   #3
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Any post I've ever made here, under any name, I will allow to be copied.












....except this one.
xXx
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:26 PM   #4
Kieraganion
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

I like the one quote you chose for me. The Chicken vs The Egg.

But for the life of me, I cannot remember which discussion that was from.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:28 PM   #5
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

http://forums.sciflicks.com/showthre...hlight=beliefs
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:31 PM   #6
mack
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

oh that has me laughing! keep it coming!
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 05:52 PM   #7
Kieraganion
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Quote:
Originally posted by Quintessa
http://forums.sciflicks.com/showthre...hlight=beliefs


Quin, I never posted in that thread. That was Pinky.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 06:06 PM   #8
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Give me a break. It was late, and I looked at the avatar. I'll corect it...

Last edited by Quintessa : Aug 30, 2004 at 06:32 PM.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 06:26 PM   #9
Kieraganion
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

You've done an awsome job Quin.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 07:20 PM   #10
Cricketlighter
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Quint...

Quint is so hard working and conscientious to do all this.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 09:02 PM   #11
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

ahhh, not really... It is difficult.



I will perservere... Nah, but it'll be funny to try!
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 09:50 PM   #12
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Pointless posts that make me laugh…

oh yeah then that's okay then.
















what's the colour of your spinny chair???
Nexus_6


My spinny chair is made of wood. And it's brown. And it has arm rests.

Run, Forest. Run.
Iwata


I'm 14, but when I'm bored I act 4. And when I'm annoying people I act like a 28 year old acting like a 4 year old
Kotetsu


Where's my fish?
Kotetsu


::in muffled voice so that you can't tell exactly what I am saying:: loserssaywhat
Kotetsu


Flash!! AhaaaaH!!!

life is like a box of chocolates: When you open it up you find some a-hole took away all the good ones, and all you got are the licour-flavoured ones.

Very good movie. This thread looks like PC technology: just when you think you're up to date, you find out you're late.
Iwata


"Bart and I were penracing, and Bart was winning, but then he said "This is stupid" and he quit AND I WON!!"

This is Homer Simpson for you, fellas!

This is awesome. we are free to use any methods necessary, including disintegration... or spam... whichever is worse.

How is that like life? I do not know. It's just funny.
Iwata


Oh. that's nice kotetsu. thank you for telling us.

"Sex is like a sauna-it's hot but you get out of bed it's not anymore!"
Nexus_6


Wel, how about this: Girls are like cats: They'll play with you only for as long as they can entertain themselves. Then they'll rip your guts out, and feed on your broken remains, while laughing all the time...

...I'm having a hard time...
Iwata
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 10:02 PM   #13
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

D'oh!


We need somebody to keep track of the quote count.
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 10:04 PM   #14
Quintessa
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

Should I just create a seperate post for each quote and then count the posts?
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 10:32 PM   #15
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Re: Quotes, I have so far.

I was just joking really.

That'd be a lot of trouble.

But if you wait long enough, someone else will just count them up for you probably.
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