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Pilot's Mess [chit-chat zone]

This is the forum to get to know your fellow pilots and the ONLY place to talk about everything else not really relevant to sci-fi movies, including your personal loves and interests. A true pilot doesn't discuss these issues while on duty.

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Old Aug 20, 2001, 02:58 PM   #1
UnReGiStErEdMaN
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

Just want to know what everyone thinks about god and the bible...does he exist?...whats the point of life?..many other questions that i hope will make for good discussion
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Old Aug 20, 2001, 03:11 PM   #2
Iwata
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

Ok, Ill make this simple: I'm a catholic, I believe in God, the Angels, Saints and the Holy Church, and I HATE this type of conversation (no ofense intended to you, U-man, of course), because people begin by listening to opinions, and soon it decays.
This is a type of conversation that, for believers, can really upset. People say things that they feel, but, unwittingly, often offend. I know this from personnal experience. This is a very delicate matter. My opinion has been noted. Sorry again, U-man. no ofense to you intended, I repeat.
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Old Aug 20, 2001, 03:15 PM   #3
UnReGiStErEdMaN
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

im not trying to start anything im just curious and if it does get out of hand i will smply shut down the thread
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Old Aug 20, 2001, 03:16 PM   #4
Iwata
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

Glad to know it's in good hands. Remember: "Big Brother is watching you"
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 05:21 AM   #5
WhiteRabbit
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

I'm not in the least bit religious... frankly I find the whole idea ridiculous. But hey, all you believers can laugh at me as I burn in Hell, right?

BTW U-Man, I think only moderators can close threads. I might be wrong..
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 07:33 AM   #6
HighWiredSith
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

The Bible: Absolute inerrant Word of God and the only book God ever wrote. It's quite supernatural really.

Many people think my love of science fiction and fantasy conflicts with my devout Christianity. All that Harry Potter nonsense has gotten people roused about fantasy, even The Lord of the Rings. I find that there is one factor in about 99% of the people that feel this way and that's the fact that they have never read Tolkein or Harry Potter. These are the same breed of nut that banned Huckleberry Finn. I used to be an English teacher, so banning books is something I don't take lightly. Some books really should be banned (like anything from Danielle Steel) but at least READ the book first! Excuse me while I slide this soap box back under my desk...
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 12:07 PM   #7
zombie84
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

I am catholic and have been going to catholic schools all my life, so religion was strongly reinforced in my school life.

I believe very strongly in the teachings of Jesus. for me The New Testament is the only book you'll ever need. The rest of the bible is completely irrelevant to our daily lives and is complete Bull. It was written in a way that people of the time could understand what happened in the world, an era that existed before science and people were forced to explain the universe in their own ways, and reflects the barbaric society for which is was written for. The only meaningful book is Exodus really. But anyway, no intention to offend anyone, just my opinions and i am not arguing, just debating (theres a difference).

People become so dependant on religion because they are so insecure about the world that they have to force themselves to believe in angels and such to make their own existence have meaning, and anything contradicting their beliefs is upsetting because it questions our own existence. We should question our faith because blind devotion is dangerous. I believe in God and the afterlife, but i don't think he is an old bearded man sitting on a golden throne in the clouds as the bible describes him. I believe in the soul and i believe in 'miracles'. These things can all be rationally explained and are not necessarily the way we are led to believe they are by our religion but that doesn't diminish them. What if the soul is not a ghostly spirit but an energy source that resides inside us and is eternal? If we could explain anything 'divine' using science would that make it any less divine? No, but I'm sure most people would think so for whatever reason. Einstein believed in a soul because he stated that energy can never be destroyed, it can only be displaced. Just because we can explain something using logic or whatever doesn't make it any less incredible. Science and religion don't have to be enemy's but the stubbornness of blind devotee's seems to be preventing this.

My view of the church is that the Catholic Church is the biggest bunch of corrupt, self-righteous hypocrite's I've ever seen. It really does saddens me to see people believe everything the church tells them to believe. Pope Jean Paul II is finally starting to put things back together (in fact the church's embracing of Evolution and stem cell research is the only intelligent thing they have done since the founding of Christianity).

Really the only thing about the church and the bible that has absolute relevance to our lives and can actually help people is the New Testament. Being half historical records and half a guide on how to live your life, this is really the only 'good book' in the 'Good Book' and one that doesn't command you to cut the foreskin off your penis so God wont slaughter your children. I don't see how reading about how unfaithful wives should be stoned to death in the streets, or about the 400 descendants of Jesus or about Adam and Eve or about how God will kick my ass if i don't worship him every Sunday can be of any help to anyone except spreading religious propaganda nonsense.
Jesus taught the world to love again, and showed that it is possible to do good. Jesus was an actual person who did the things the bible describes him doing, we know that for a fact. Whether or not he was the messiah and that he performed miracles is really the only thing up for debate. And it doesn't really matter. Most people are so bent on trying to prove that Noah existed and that Jesus was the son of God, that they missed the entire point. It wouldn't make a difference to me and it shouldn't to anyone else because more important than the fact is the message behind it. God and Religion are based solely in peoples minds because we cant prove the existence of god (at least right now), so it is really the meanings and ideals behind them that are of concern, and that is to love each other. Most 'believers' as Iwata put it, read the bible and take everything in it at an almost completely literal level, and then get upset when people question their faith, but the ironic part is that they have been reading it for so long but got nothing out of it because instead of actually following the examples of Jesus, they spend their time watching Tv evangelists and worrying about going to hell because they masturbate.

so those are a few of my views on religion. Dont mean to offend anyone, i am not trying to insult and i would like to debate these issues. I just think its unhealthy to let other people chose your beliefs for you.
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 02:11 PM   #8
Iwata
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

Hey, maybe I explained myself wrong. I'm no Crusader. And I'm certainly no "missionary boyscout"
However, I do believe in the Church. I do believe in Angels and Saints (although some are questionable).
What I meant is, I often discuss religion with two of my friends, who are both atheists, and the end is always the same: They start making fun of God, and Jesus, and saying stupid things that I will not, out of respect, reproduce here.
For me, that is plain disrespect. I do believe in hell, but, as a "state of mind", as John Paul II as put it. I mean, what could be worse than our world? Well, a lot I guess...
Anyway, I get a feeling that you picture me in an armour, with a red cross on my chest, chopping "the Infidel's" head with my mighty sword, as I scream "FOR THE GLORY OF THE LORD!!!".
No such things. I'm pretty open to discussion. Perhaps i got the wrong impression of how religion is discussed among civilized people.
Anyway, thanks for listening.
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 03:03 PM   #9
UnReGiStErEdMaN
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

i really shouldve said this in my first post but oh well...i myself am an atheist...i think the bible is rediculous and i think whatever satanists read is rediculous...the thought that some supreme being exists without proof except a book?? what does a book matter?? you believe everything you read?? and the stories in the bible are sad..people put a stick in the ground and the ocean split?? people walk on water??people turn water or whatever into wine?? if its true how come it doesnt happen nowadays?? and god or jesus or who the hell ever is narcississtic (i cant spell) because its heaven or hell and if you believe in god/jesus/? you go to heaven..if you worship satan you go to hell..i you worship neither you STILL go to hell thats 1 for heaven and 2 for hell...so to sum it up its you have no choice but to believe in god/jesus/? or you suffer in hell..that sounds kinda greedy to me

another thing is why (if you do believe) would you take days out of your life to study something...if your going to die and spend eternity with him ETERNITY-FOREVER..why take time to study and worship him now if your gonna have forever to do it?? you only live once so i think people should find something else to do.

THEORIES:
a shouvenist wants everyone to worship men so he makes a supreme figure of the male sex

or it was a fairy tale and as it got passed down it changed (like rumors)

those are my views
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 03:39 PM   #10
HighWiredSith
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

I respect your views. But if this life is all there is, how sad. This world is full of pain and cruelty and hatred and what little time we spend in it is riddled with these things. I think it's the belief in something greater than all this, something more permanent and divine that gives us the capacity to act outside of logic and makes things like forgiveness and sacrifice possible.
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 04:47 PM   #11
Bayleaf48
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Smile Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

Quite simple for me, I'm nbot at all religious, so there fore I do not believe in God & once you die for me, that's it!

However, should I become religious I will come back to this post & change what I have said!!

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Old Aug 21, 2001, 06:28 PM   #12
zombie84
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

I would just like to reply to U-Mans post, not because I necessarily believe in these things, but just to respond to why other people do...

Religion is based on faith. Faith in believing in something that is so powerful you don't need proof. Their proof is the bible-- which was written by people who supposedly were told what to write by God (who supposedly demands that we worship him on sunday out of respect BTW). So basically we do have proof, but whether or not you believe this proof is based on your own personality and views on life.
An atheist is usually demoralistic and self-destructive in some way or another. Orthodox Christians are usually old-fashioned and conservative. Our views on religion reflect our views on life. Religion is much more a psychological study than anything else. Our views on God and the afterlife reflect who we are and the society of our times. I think the Scientology 'religion' is very interesting commentary on our own society. But religion is necessary for many people. It gives them hope and inspires them to do good because the thought of a pointless existence without meaning is unbearable to them. What they don't understand is that we shouldnt need religion to tell us to be kind and loving to each other, but apparently we do. If some billion-year-old alien being came to earth and knew every secret of the universe and told us there was no God, would people belive him? no, they would say"we have to have faith, blah blah, how does he know this, blah blah." People believe what they want to because religous spirituality is purely a mental state.

As for miracles, U-Man: Believe it or not, some of the so-called miracles of the bible CAN be explained. Some would tell you that that cant be because it makes the miracles not divine interventions on the part of God, but mere coincidences. My views is that, yes, they are unlikely happenings, but perhaps willed by God, and it shouldnt make them any less incredible.

Quote:
and the stories in the bible are sad..people put a stick in the ground and the ocean split?? people walk on water??people turn water or whatever into wine?? if its true how come it doesnt happen nowadays??


You have to understand that many of the 'miracles' in the bible actually did happen in some form or another because many of them have been documented in other historical documents of the time. The thing to keep in mind is the way they were explained. Things that happen in the bible do happen nowadays, but we don't call them miracles because they can be rationally explained.
I'll give a good example: The Exodus events. You mentioned how Moses parting and crossing the Red Sea with thousands of Jews is balony, but there actually is ways to explain that it probably did in fact happen.
The Egyptians were hot on the jews tails so Moses calls up to God and parts the Red seas, crossing it with the Jews and then the waters fall back on the Egyptians when they try to go after them. Sounds pretty incredible but its really not. Nearby the Red Sea is the northern Reed Sea area. When the authors of Exodus were writting it, they mispelt Reed with Red. The Reed sea isnt as big as the Red, and is much more shallower. In this area there is a shallow, underwater land-bridge, that could be used to cross if the water became shallow enough. But the kicker is a very rare weather phenomenon, where easterly winds can cause the waters to receed for about 7 miles, similar to a tide receeding. All these elements combined, the sea would literally part, and you would be able to walk across. Napoleon knew of this and even tried it! However, he barely esacped with his life when the winds changed direction and caused the water to come crashing back, just as had supposedly happened with the Egyptians. So you see, things like that are possible. Hollywood has distorted our view though, with images of literal walls of water quickly receeding in seconds as the Egyptians watched from afar (the egyptians were actually a few days behind them, and when they saw that the jews had crossed the sea and tried to follow, the winds stopped and came hurdling back, drowning them). Mabey it was God who caused such bizarre coincidences to occur, my point is that the bible is not meant to be taken literally, and in cases where there is actual documentation of true events, the truth is distorted because of the time it was written in.
Obviously things like Adam and Eve are completely rediculous (the church even believes in Evolution nowadays), but they were never meant to be taken literally anyway. The bible is about parables and teachings, and these ideas were shown in ways that people thousands of years ago could understand.

I do strongly belive in an afterlife, at least an afterlife of some kind, and the existence of a soul, that much I am almost certain, so I know that life on earth isnt the end.
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Old Aug 21, 2001, 06:46 PM   #13
UnReGiStErEdMaN
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

well like i said as it got passed down it probably changed..and your fact about the reed sea or whatever does pose a very interesting point
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Old Aug 22, 2001, 07:28 AM   #14
HighWiredSith
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

If some of the Bible is myth and some is reality, then where does the myth end and the reality begin? If you don't believe Genesis and the creation, which Jesus made multiple references to in the Gospels, then how can you believe anything in the New Testament? You are right about Faith, but it takes no Faith to believe in science (although your explanation of the Red Sea is just about as fantastic and miraculous as God parting it). The widely accepted scientific theories and understanding of 100 years ago are considered total folly by today's scientific standard and those of today, I can assure you, will be considered total folly in another 100 years. Already, most scientists are giving up thier beliefs in evolution because the science just doesn't add up. The world doesn't evolve, the world devolves. Things in nature don't get better and grow more complicated, they degrade and retreat to the lowest common form. Look around you. Have you ever seen anything, when left alone, grow newer, more advanced? We see the second law of thermodynamics all around us every day. More and more scientist are looking to outer space for the explanation of where life began, grapsing at more straws in an all out effort to relegate Faith and belief in divine creation to something only for the undeducated and non-thinking. There are simply too many holes and "missing links" in evolution for even science to consder it 100% valid. The story or Creation hasn't changed one bit in over 4000 years.

But all of this academic and, I assure you, not intended to anger or put down anyone. Paul wrote in his first letter to the Corinthian church that "The power of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."(1:18) I have found, as Paul did, that to argue with those who don't have Faith is a waste of time. And not just any faith, but Faith in Jesus Christ. Until you believe, and I mean really, truly believe, then it's all nonsense, all myth, and all foolishness. But I would ask this question before I shut up, are you 100% assured of what would happen to you if you died today and are you at peace with that?
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Old Aug 23, 2001, 08:18 PM   #15
UnReGiStErEdMaN
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Re: What are your thoughts on God and the bible?

whiterabbit...i would like to hear your views and theories as to why it is rediculous,as i would with bayleaf please
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