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Sci-Fi Movie Titles: [ # -- E ]

From "12 Monkeys" to "Explorers"...

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Old Dec 25, 2002, 12:21 PM   #16
Quetzalcoatl
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Re: 1984

Quote:
Originally posted by NinjaMonkey


Me too. "Brave New World" was excellent. I also think it's more of a possibility than 1984.

Firstly, it has happened more or less withe the Soviet Union et al. Secondly, you make the mistake, as many do, of taking Nineteen Eighty-four as being an all or nothing warning - i.e. as long as not all the circumstances of the novel have come to pass than we're OK! Let me see…

Public suveylance is rife in our society at present. It is a short step from it being used as a "security" tool to one of control.

Our daily language is constantly corrupted and bastardised - a fine example is how a justifiably emotive term such as "shell shock" has evolved into the anodine "post traumatic stress disorder". Look, and you'll find many other way in which either feeling has been drained, or or meaning simplified.
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Old Dec 25, 2002, 02:40 PM   #17
NinjaMonkey
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Re: 1984

Quote:
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl


Firstly, it has happened more or less withe the Soviet Union et al. Secondly, you make the mistake, as many do, of taking Nineteen Eighty-four as being an all or nothing warning - i.e. as long as not all the circumstances of the novel have come to pass than we're OK! Let me see…

Public suveylance is rife in our society at present. It is a short step from it being used as a "security" tool to one of control.

Our daily language is constantly corrupted and bastardised - a fine example is how a justifiably emotive term such as "shell shock" has evolved into the anodine "post traumatic stress disorder". Look, and you'll find many other way in which either feeling has been drained, or or meaning simplified.

Actually I haven't made that assumption as I'm aware that some of what he talked about in the book has occured. The book has also affected our society in that we have absorbed a lot of the lingo from the book.

Brave New World is just the more likely to come about still. It's the realization of the Last Man that Nieztche wrote about in Thus Spake Zarathustra, and the despotism that is spoken of by Alexis De Tocqueville.
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Old Dec 26, 2002, 04:14 AM   #18
Quetzalcoatl
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Re: 1984

Quote:
Originally posted by NinjaMonkey


Actually I haven't made that assumption as I'm aware that some of what he talked about in the book has occured. The book has also affected our society in that we have absorbed a lot of the lingo from the book.

Brave New World is just the more likely to come about still. It's the realization of the Last Man that Nieztche wrote about in Thus Spake Zarathustra, and the despotism that is spoken of by Alexis De Tocqueville.

Considering how puritanical our societies are about drugs I think it highly unlikely - drugs being the prime method of control in Brave New World. People grown in vats is also unlikely seeing as how little we have shaken of our animal instinct to procreate.
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Old Dec 26, 2002, 05:10 AM   #19
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Re: 1984

Quote:
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl


Considering how puritanical our societies are about drugs I think it highly unlikely - drugs being the prime method of control in Brave New World. People grown in vats is also unlikely seeing as how little we have shaken of our animal instinct to procreate.
Our animal instinct to procreate is nothing but our animal instinct to ****. And in BNW it is taken care of.
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Old Dec 26, 2002, 11:18 AM   #20
Quetzalcoatl
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Re: 1984

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Originally posted by SF_not_Sci-Fi
Our animal instinct to procreate is nothing but our animal instinct to ****. And in BNW it is taken care of.

Oh come. Then how do you explain the lengths people go to to conceive? How do you explain how, and think that it could in any sort of near future, people could be rid of the need to raise children?
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Old Dec 4, 2004, 12:25 PM   #21
Gugliemo
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Re: 1984

Wow, this is an old thread.

1984 is a fantastic book, more for its concept than its pretty dull plot. A spinoff should have been made. Films 'based' on the book, such as Brazil and Equilibrium, are good, but not quite what they could be. Stop homaging and make a direct reference damnit!

Still haven't seen the actual film though, it's never on tv! Maybe this year
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Old Dec 9, 2004, 03:47 PM   #22
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Re: 1984

1984 and brave new world are excellent books. its uncanny how some of the stuff is coming true though.

if you like those you should check out the other books by huxley, very interesting.


also check out this --- a free photo ipod!!!!!!

<http://www.freephotoiPods.com/?r=12357403>
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 01:36 AM   #23
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

In defense of 1984:

I think exploring the idea of maintaining self-identity in an environment that demands, on pain of death, that you walk the walk and talk the talk of those in power is interesting and relevant. I think that being able to think outside the box often requires a physical removal from it. Winston does so in that little room he rents, but his solitude is ironic due to his privacy being monitored continually by hidden cameras. Which is frightening, I think. The only way that we could really achieve sincere privacy is by leaving the planet, or through high artistic achievement (because it is the most effective means to express the interior self, its take on the world, etc, and because art has the potential to be permanent, and also because, and this may be a requirement, it is able to achieve social recognition, thereby validating the self. I think many people feel that identity is dependent on social interaction, after all, even in solitude there is society). Maybe others could comment, if the idea is intersting to ponder, but I wonder whether members of the military, or politicians, or those who teach I guess, are the only true citizens, and all others fall under the category of those who need to be both protected and controlled. International businesses would also be a part of this elite due to their ability to shape international affairs. I am not included among any of the elite, so I am not viewing the world from aloft . . . but is this viewpoint valid? If so, then I think Winston's relationship with Big Brother is relevant because it expresses an actual conflict between the elite and the, I don't know, the working class, I guess. The presence of power in our reality is not so obviously manifested as it is in 1984, but one effective means to illustrate an idea is to use exaggerrated expression in order to communicate clearly. If it is melodramatic to say that this relationship is oppressive--after all, it does not exist in the exaggerated form that it does in 1984--I suspect, unless convinced otherwise, that it is important to be aware of the presence of power and one's own relationship to it. Unless I am mistaken, if you are one of the working class, and aware of your relationship to power, you would either have to work very hard to be accepted into the elite, or admit that you are servent who needs to obey his/her masters. In which case, perhaps it is preferable to be brainwashed into believing that division doesn't exist and that everyone is equal to everyone else. Also, I believe that George Orwell was a socialist, so he may have been wanting to illustrate the nature of power and its relationship to everyone else as he saw it the 40's (or whenever), as opposed to writing the novel as a warning against the future, though obviously it serves as a warning as well.

"Liberty is all very well, but men cannot live without masters. There is always a master. And men either live in glad obedience to the master they believe in, or they live in a frictional opposition to the master they wish to undermine."

"Men are free when they are in a living homeland, not when they are staying and breaking away. Men are free when they are obeying some deep, inward voice of religious belief. Obeying from within. Men are free when they belong to a living, organic, believing community, active in fulfilling some unfulfilled, perhaps unrealized purpose. Not when they are escaping to some wild west. The most unfree souls go west, and shout of freedom. Men are freest when they are most unconscious of freedom. The shout is a rattling of chains, always was."

- D.H. Lawrence, from Studies in Classic American Literature

Last edited by toomuchcoffee : Feb 22, 2005 at 10:43 AM.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 09:59 PM   #24
JACKER
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Re: 1984

Dude, you have had too much coffee. Phew! Glad to get that out of the way. Hi, I'm JACKER.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 10:07 PM   #25
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

I know. I should probably run some laps.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 10:19 PM   #26
JACKER
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Re: 1984

No, just keep posting. Just talk to us. You will find that ultimately just as tiring. Not really.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 10:23 PM   #27
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

Okay. I'm going to return to Mack's book update thread and write in a quote from an interview with Tupac.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 12:31 PM   #28
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Damn it! Overdue respons.

Quote:
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl


Oh come. Then how do you explain the lengths people go to to conceive? How do you explain how, and think that it could in any sort of near future, people could be rid of the need to raise children?
And how do you explain the lengths that people go NOT to concieve? I have no need to generate children, and I am not the only one. When you say 'raise' you must mean 'generate.' There's always adoption if 'raising children' is the urge.



And yes. 1984 was as relevant in 1948 as it is in 2005. Orwells diatribe against state capitalism is just as relevant when leveld against the institutions of bourgeois democracy. Hell, he based his potrayal of 'minitru' on his experiance working for the BBC.

Last edited by SF_not_Sci-Fi : Feb 23, 2005 at 12:49 PM.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 01:57 PM   #29
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

I did not know that about minitru and the BBC.

But what do you think about what I wrote about the nature of true citizenship? I think Starship Troopers got me thinking about that, and also my experience in the military, I felt like a citizen for the first time. Or did I feel comfortable because I was among the powerful and protected?

Did you ever read Down and Out in Paris and London by Orwell? His first novel I think, he lived in Paris and London as a hobo then wrote about it. I thought it was kind of cool. One of his defenses for the people who chose to be homeless, if your criticism is their lack of usefulness, that he has known plenty of paying jobs that are useless. I don't know if it is the same now, however.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 02:34 PM   #30
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Re: 1984

I don't think that I've ever been a citizen of any country. Even on paper.

The whole question of citizinship is pointless. In a capitalist society (be it bourgeois capitalist like ours, or state capitalist like the USSR or Oceania), or any other hiarchical system, any power held by a 'rank-in-file' member is an illusion. Power is excersized by the elites who control the system. The only way to fight it is through revolutionary direct action.

As a soldier you are in effect a serf, which is the epitome of citizenship in a state.
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