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Sci-Fi Movie Titles: [ # -- E ]

From "12 Monkeys" to "Explorers"...

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Old Feb 23, 2005, 03:45 PM   #31
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

That's an interesting point.

However, given the power that the elite in reality has, in its protection of the masses via military and law, do you think that any notion that you are not a citizen is illusory, despite the wisdom not considering oneself a citizen of any country?

Actually, perhaps it is better to live in an illusion than to overtly give yourself over to the powers that be.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 03:55 PM   #32
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Re: 1984

Quote:
Originally posted by toomuchcoffee
That's an interesting point.

However, given the power that the elite in reality has, in its protection of the masses via military and law,
The law protects the elite from the masses. The military protects the interests of the elite against other national elites. Any minor 'benifits' to the masses are coincidential and do not even begin to atone for the evils of capitalist and state domination. The law particularly comes with plenty of contradictions and double standards: how many Wallmarts (as opposed to homes) have been displaced under the auspices of 'emminent domain' to make way for private enterprises such as stadiums?

There's your universal 'right to property' right there!

We have more interests in common with workers round the world then we do with our own elites. The elites understand this: they forget their petty differences as soon as the common root of their hegemony is threatened. It is time that we as workers do the same.


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do you think that any notion that you are not a citizen is illusory, despite the wisdom not considering oneself a citizen of any country?
The feeling is mutual: No country considers me a citizen of itself either.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 04:21 PM   #33
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

I understand what you mean by the hegemony of the elite being broken, etc, but what does the average worker have to unite and fight against? Are you speaking of revolution, replacing the power with something else? What issues to have concerns with? I have to leave so will not be able to reply until later.

I recently read the book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. Autobiography of an EHM, assuming that it's not fabricated. He claims that a major corporation offered to take care of him financially for the rest of his life if he did not publish the book.
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Old Feb 23, 2005, 06:23 PM   #34
SF_not_Sci-Fi
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Re: 1984

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Originally posted by toomuchcoffee
I understand what you mean by the hegemony of the elite being broken, etc, but what does the average worker have to unite and fight against?
What about what has come to be known as the global 'race to the bottom?' Companies are pitting workers of all around the world against one another in order to increase profits at the expense of wages. The workers are encouraged to blame various nationalities. All the jobs are going to mexico. **** the Mexicans! We must lower our standards! All the jobs are going to China. !Chingada! We must lower our further. This is just one manifistation of capitalist exploitation.

We are subjegated by the same global forces and we must turn on our masters and refuse to let new masters rise if we are ever to be free. My main issues of concern are: economic exploitation, ecological destruction, forceful domination, etc.

These are the features of capitalist and statist rule. What do we replace it with? A free federation of free communities composed of free indaviduals. Worker-run industry- by federated syndicates and local worker commitees.
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Old Feb 24, 2005, 02:28 PM   #35
toomuchcoffee
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Re: 1984

With regard to "the race to the bottom" etc, the only thing I know about that is what I read in the book I mentioned, Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. You should take a look at it, if not read it, I would be interested in your take on it.

With regard to your free economy idea: What are you, a commie? No, I'm kidding. I have no idea if what you propose is a good idea, but I wonder if your views are similar to Noam Chomsky's. I own two lectures of his on CD: Propaganda and Control of the Public Mind and U.S Foreign Rights Policy: A Case Study in Hypocracy. It sounds like your bag.
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Old Feb 25, 2005, 08:51 AM   #36
Gugliemo
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Re: 1984

Capitalism may be 'evil', but it works. The problem with idealists is that for all their thoughtful and intelligent outlooks, they never see or point out the advantages of our current state and the flaws in their own proposals.

It's very easy to look at all the bad things in the world, but we are still the strongest, healthiest people in history (well, we're capable of it anyway). Capitalism and the Industrial revolution have created a world where anything is possible, dreams are reachable. Surely what we need is reforms for a better world (the things Geprge Bush seems so opposed to), rather than risky idealist proposals. Capitalism wasn't responsible for the Orwellian states of Oceana, Eurasia and Eastasia, revolution was.
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Old Feb 25, 2005, 11:50 AM   #37
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Re: 1984

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Originally posted by Gugliemo
Capitalism may be 'evil', but it works. The problem with idealists is that for all their thoughtful and intelligent outlooks, they never see or point out the advantages of our current state and the flaws in their own proposals.
Capitalism only works for the capitalists. Various real systems have existed- and exist now- that are based on the principles that I advocate. They worked before, they work now. Take the Spanish Social Revolution, and the workers' soviets of the Russian Revolution. These were eventually destroyed by reactionary violance (Franco and Lenin respectively) but you cannot equate the violant physical destruction of something with any internal flaw or inconsistancy in it. You miight as well say that no murdered man was fit to live in the first place.

Take the current factory siezures in Argentina, the MST movement in Brazil, the Zappatista revolution in Mexico. Take the countless small egaliterian communities around the world. These are working despite all of the institutional opposition and the murderous violance that the defendors of the capitalist order direct against them. I am far less of an idealist then someone who makes the claim that capitalism works. Capitalism has been failing humanity for centuries. These are not risky idealist proposals but real living solutions once you actually take the trouble to understand them in their theoretical and PRACTICAL context.
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Capitalism wasn't responsible for the Orwellian states of Oceana, Eurasia and Eastasia, revolution was.
No, Reaction was. The three fantastical regimes that you mention were also clearly state capitalist, as opposed to the bourgeois capitalism that you seem to favor. The do not present a condemnation of revolution- they present one of the state and of capitalist ownership- particularly state capitalist ownership of the USSR variety.
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Old Jun 25, 2006, 12:44 PM   #38
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Re: 1984



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It's the birthday [June 25] of the man who wrote Animal Farm (1945) and 1984 (1949), George Orwell, (books by this author) born Eric Blair in a small village in Bengal, India (1903). He went to an English boarding school and then worked as a policeman in Burma before becoming a journalist.

He wrote about the Spanish Civil War, and fought on the side of the loyalists, fighting against Franco. But he also witnessed the Stalinist faction of the communist party that began to suppress the other leftist groups, arresting them and censoring newspapers and organizing armed militias. Orwell himself had to go into hiding in order to avoid arrest or even execution by the Stalinists.

He eventually had to flee the country. The experience of the war changed his life. He came to believe that it wasn't Fascism or Communism that was evil, but simply idealism taken to any extreme. At a time when most intellectuals still supported Communism in Russia, Orwell became one of the first leftist writers to speak out against Stalin. He began to work on a political allegory about the Communist revolution that became Animal Farm, about a group of farm animals that overthrow their farmer, Mr. Jones. Because England and Russia were still allies at the end of World War II, he had trouble publishing the book, but when Animal Farm finally came out after the war, it made Orwell famous.

Orwell spent the last years of his life writing 1984, about a future in which England has become a totalitarian state run by an anonymous presence known only as Big Brother. He died a few months after it was first published, but it has since been translated into sixty-two languages and has sold more than ten million copies.
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