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eXistenZ (1999)

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Old Apr 23, 2002, 07:39 PM   #1
Simpleton
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Underrated!

eXistenZ is a great movie. If there's any justice, XZ will be remembered long after people have written off The Matrix as old and creaky. I've read a few of the other threads regarding this flick and so couldn't resist posting at least a few words about it, but didn't want to scatter a dozen different replies around. Instead I'll try to address it all in this post.

One of the striking things about the movie is the biotech aspect of the virtual reality equipment. A few posters commented about how cheap the whole thing looked because of this, especially compared to The Matrix, and that the game probe stuff was unrealistic, etc. This is missing the point (to put it kindly).

XZ is the sort of movie that lends itself to more than one viewing, because it operates on several levels. The main storyline appears to be a blending of the characters' virtual and actual realities, and in the end they come out of the whole thing as a virtual reality game about people dealing with virtual reality. Nothing terribly startling about the idea, stated straightforwardly. However, many dismissed the movie as confusing because they weren't paying attention to when characters were in which reality or what general rules applied differently in each.

With regards to the latter point about rules, some have posted that the acting was inconsistent or that it didn't make sense for the two lead characters to be groping each other with no apparent prompting. Simply put, the lead characters were in the game at that point. Allegra specifically comments that she was disappointed in how the videostore owner turned out for example. Since background characters are sometimes lame and flat in (our) real-life games and movies and comic books, it makes sense that some of these problems would crop up in even sophisticated vr games. So it wasn't an issue of the actor in the role on a set, it was an issue of a character written poorly in a game. When Allegra comments about her disappointment, she's admitting that maybe she didn't do as good a job with the game design as she thought.

Similarly, Allegra herself explains why she and Pikul suddenly start groping each other. He's shocked at these urges, but she says that it's a game mechanic at work, just a way to push the players into getting more involved with the game more quickly. It's a feature of the game design.

Okay, I'll stop ranting about that and get back on track.

The creepy biological stuff is one of Cronenberg's signatures. Believe it or not, though, it serves a purpose. Make the tech into shiny hardware, and you've just got another dystopian vr flick, a la The Matrix or Thirteenth Floor. The biological aspect of the vr game pods adds several levels of meaning to the story.

On a literal level, the game pods are explained as amphibian embryos which have been genetically manipulated. The pods are effectively a tiny brain into which the game environment has been encoded on a genetic level. Rather than the usual head-gear, these plug in at the base of the spine and communicate data via the spinal cord.

Didn't anyone else notice that the cable looked like an umbilical cord?

On a symbolic level, the biotech references sex and birth in increasingly disturbing ways. Allegra lubes her finger and is pushing it into Pikul's new interface, saying how it's hungry for input. Once in the game, Pikul pushes his tongue against Allegra's interface . . . you can see where I'm going with this.

Key image: Allegra, lying on the bed, her game pod lying beside her, with the umbilical/probe cable connecting them. Her protectiveness of the pod is not just for a work project, but for a child.

Key transition: Allegra and Pikul are kissing in the videostore's back room, and he's running his hand down her body - quick cut - he's holding a freshly dead amphibious creature in his hand, which he then guts and sends to processing, so its internal parts can be used for game pods.

Which brings us to the next level of the story. Allegra is not really a game designer, she's a player in a game where her character is a game designer. And she's not really a player, either, since she's really there to kill the real designer behind the game she's been playing.

Within the game that she and Pikul are playing, wandering around the trout farm, a theme of poison and disease comes up. Allegra realizes suddenly that her game pod has been poisoned and has been trying to communicate this to her within the game environment.

This reflects on the game enviroment on the whole, not just in Allegra's game, but the game that she's playing in (i.e. the movie's overlying narrative). The whole story started with the attempted assassination of a game designer, and the mechanics of the story reflect Allegra's opinion that the virtual reality games simply gut the human soul and twist reality.

So . . . Allegra is there to try out this game and get a chance to kill the designer. She gets dropped into the lead role, and the game session starts. THAT'S where the movie begins . . . and so the Allegra we meet initially is simply Allegra's game character.

That's why the movie bears multiple viewings, because you don't realize the nuances of story until you reach the end and realize what Pikul and Allegra were really up to. The attitudes being concealed by Pikul within her game, and the attitudes being concealed by Allegra in the game beyond that, are reflected visually in the game environment. Biological game pods that take the place of children; a mental interface that's almost sexual in nature; the physical body being grotesquely twisted by people for entertainment purposes; the blurring of reality; etc.

Remember the gun? It was the assassin's weapon in the opening scene. It showed up in Allegra's game, hidden as parts within 'the house special'. Allegra, behind all the games and vr and so forth, is hiding her intention of violence, and so that hidden motive appears within the game as a weapon assembled from body parts, a manifestation of her certainty that the physical body must act to stop the mental violation by vr game designers.

Etc. There are other comments and references to make, but I'll leave it at that for now. I may get around to rebutting another post or two later.

To sum up:

eXistenZ is a brilliant piece of work. It's an example of how a science fiction movie can be art, not just a piece of lazy eye candy like The Matrix.
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Old Apr 24, 2002, 12:32 AM   #2
Ivan
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Re: Underrated!

Even thou the first time i saw it threaters i was dissaponted, I finally got the movie on disk. I must admit that this movie gains with repeated viewing, and I seem to like it more and more.

My reference about the unrealistic game pods was aimed at the unprobability and complexity of the concept. In order to make such complex entity we would basicly have to posses the creators knowledge about our Brains and biology. But this is OK since it also aplies to any VR movie. But my problem is this. The games in our real life create artificial worlds on its own. Yes it is Fiction but it is a goal of that fiction to draw the player into the artificial world by displaying the realistic possibilities of that artificial world's existense. This is why I dislike the orga nature of ExistenZ as oposed to Matrix and 13th floor. I'll give you an example: If I was a player, inside existenZ I would imidately disband the game the second I saw how the Doctor "reprograms" the pod with a surgical knife. They talk about DNA recombination and fix it with sugicall knifes?You seem what I mean?

I know that organic effect are Cronenbergs fingerprint and it worked so whell in his other movies wich i'm realy fond of (VideoDrome) . But it is my opinion that the whole isue about VR is overcoming the body. Overcoming the biologicall. And not sticking to it by refereing to umbelical cords , and mother instincts. These are built properties of the body and the mind's goal in my view is to overcome the physical and biological. The bodies and its properties are the prism through wich we watch the world. And hence the tools of our illusions and distortion of the truth around us.

And you must admit that truth about our universe is the ultimate goal.

BTW wellcome to SciFlicks I hope we'll have some interesting debates in the future.
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Old Apr 25, 2002, 01:38 PM   #3
Simpleton
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mind and body

Actually, the bit you bring up about the repair work on the pod is something I forgot to address. As I recall, the doc mentions that a whole lot of very expensive neural webbing got fried, so he did some cutting and stitching of bits, ran a clear solution over the pod, then they stitched it up. If this were a computer instead of biotech, then he'd have commented that a lot of expensive wires and circuits got fried, so he'd physically replace the fried components, run a quick diagnostic, then put the motherboard back in place and screw the cover back on.

Bear in mind, the doctor wasn't checking the integrity of her program in the pod, which was encoded down to a genetic level. Instead, he was checking the damage done by a bad interface (the sabotage by Gas). I would suspect the clear solution contained RNA to induce repair more quickly on a cellular level and to minimize any threat of genetic breakdown.

Gas, come to think of it, is a relevant point here, since he installed the interface in Pikul in the first place. Neural interface is treated as just a minor mechanical operation. The body is just another machine, needing different kinds of plugs.


"[i]t is my opinion that the whole isue about VR is overcoming the body. (etc.)" was your next paragraph, talking about how the whole point is to overcome the biological.

AAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Ahem. Sorry, that's an instinctive reaction. )

That's a very dangerous thought indeed.

And, actually, was the central theme of the movie. The game designers had neo-mystical view of technology and the human mind, which is common to most virtual reality games and movies. The resistance (Pikul and ultimately Allegra) were likewise extreme in their belief in preserving the physical. The point? Both sides are dangerously unrealistic.

Remember when Pikul put the game on PAUSE mode? He was worried because he was having difficulty sorting out his own thoughts and feelings from the impulses of his game character. Allegra was thrilled, because it meant his brain was integrating perfectly into the game environment. Pikul was appalled, because the change in his mental patterns signified psychosis. To follow his reasoning to it's logical conclusion, when would he stop being himself and start being whoever the game designer wanted him to be . . . and how would he know the difference and how could he come back?

Allegra was the voice of experience and hedonism; Pikul was the voice of restraint and principle. Her principle question was "who could it hurt if it's just fun", while his was "who will it eventually hurt and how can we stop it if it does?". (Almost an American/Russian dichotomy, come to think of it . . . .)

I should address the notion of the mind transcending the body in another post. It would take a while, and I suspect we'll want to get The Matrix fans in as well.

And thanks for the welcome. I hope I'll be a reasonable voice of dissent to some of the mainstream presumptions. If not, I'll just plan on crushing all in my path like bugs beneath the steel-reinforced toe of my hobnailed boot.
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Old Apr 26, 2002, 05:29 AM   #4
Ivan
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Re: Underrated!

Quote:
Actually, the bit you bring up about the repair work on the pod is something I forgot to address. As I recall, the doc mentions that a whole lot of very expensive neural webbing got fried, so he did some cutting and stitching of bits, ran a clear solution over the pod, then they stitched it up. If this were a computer instead of biotech, then he'd have commented that a lot of expensive wires and circuits got fried, so he'd physically replace the fried components, run a quick diagnostic, then put the motherboard back in place and screw the cover back on.

Bear in mind, the doctor wasn't checking the integrity of her program in the pod, which was encoded down to a genetic level. Instead, he was checking the damage done by a bad interface (the sabotage by Gas). I would suspect the clear solution contained RNA to induce repair more quickly on a cellular level and to minimize any threat of genetic breakdown.

After seeing that part again I must admit that your explanation is posible.

Quote:
The body is just another machine, needing different kinds of plugs.

We couldn't agree more on that. Body is just a biologocal machine.

Quote:
Remember when Pikul put the game on PAUSE mode? He was worried because he was having difficulty sorting out his own thoughts and feelings from the impulses of his game character. Allegra was thrilled, because it meant his brain was integrating perfectly into the game environment. Pikul was appalled, because the change in his mental patterns signified psychosis. To follow his reasoning to it's logical conclusion, when would he stop being himself and start being whoever the game designer wanted him to be . . . and how would he know the difference and how could he come back?

The real question that remained unanswered in the movie is this: Are the players at the end(last sequence) aware that they are in the game? Can players playing TranScendence change anything or are they just living throught individual expiriences, recreated by their subconsciousnes?

I would like to know your views on that.

BTW another thing about the orga technology. It was not suposed be taken for real at all!! Remember they were actualy using blue "squid" like interfaces on their heads, similar to the "squid" in Strange Days(1995) . Therefore the orga-pods were just a product of the players subconsciousness.
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Old Apr 27, 2002, 07:43 PM   #5
Simpleton
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Re: Underrated!

[/b][/quote]
Quote:
The real question that remained unanswered in the movie is this: Are the players at the end(last sequence) aware that they are in the game? Can players playing TranScendence change anything or are they just living throught individual expiriences, recreated by their subconsciousnes?

I would like to know your views on that.


Ah. Who says they're playing a game? That's the 'lady-or-the-tiger' question at the end, and illustrates Pikul's whole point. Maybe TranScendence is simply taking place within another game; maybe not. The guard at the door, who says the last line as he's facing a gun barrel, is having difficulty accepting that something this bad could be really happening to him and so he assumes that this must still be part of the game.

As far as the game mechanics go, I got the distinct impression that a person playing XZ (or TS) could make various choices within the role of their character, rather than simply acting out the character and effectively becoming a passenger to someone else experience (a la Total Recall). For example, Pikul broke with his character's programmed purpose when he didn't shoot Allegra during lunch, changing the direction of the overall game storyline.


Quote:
BTW another thing about the orga technology. It was not suposed be taken for real at all!! Remember they were actualy using blue "squid" like interfaces on their heads, similar to the "squid" in Strange Days(1995) . Therefore the orga-pods were just a product of the players subconsciousness.


That's one of the reasons I cited for the replay value of this movie. The lead player's subconcious was shaping the game environment within TS. When you watch the movie the first time, you don't know about TS and so it's not a terribly relevant point; you're just watching the funky biotech stuff going on. The second viewing, however, allows you to know that Allegra is really there to assassinate the TS game designer and consequently the game technology within TS is an expression of her view of virtual reality games. All the motifs of sex, birth, flesh . . . all of that stuff reflects that Allegra secretly hates vr games and thinks they are twisting humanity.
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 05:36 AM   #6
Ivan
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Re: Underrated!

Quote:
Ah. Who says they're playing a game? That's the 'lady-or-the-tiger' question at the end, and illustrates Pikul's whole point. Maybe TranScendence is simply taking place within another game; maybe not.

What we know for certain is that TranSedenCe is a game and ExistenZ is a game. It is shown in the movie. But if The Last scene is reality or not is open to interpretation.

Quote:
As far as the game mechanics go, I got the distinct impression that a person playing XZ (or TS) could make various choices within the role of their character, rather than simply acting out the character and effectively becoming a passenger to someone else experience (a la Total Recall). For example, Pikul broke with his character's programmed purpose when he didn't shoot Allegra during lunch, changing the direction of the overall game storyline.

I thought so to, when one of the players said "You deserve to win" . But there is something else I'd like to adress. One of the caracters also said that he thought that his character/role was boring. If TranscenDence works with direct user interaction why would he say that? If there was direct User action, why didn't he do something to make his caracter less boring. BTW Who does create the main game plot ? One character (Alegra) or it is sumarry mixed from all players.

After some thought, I thing that Transcendes has no Direct User Intervention, players have no knowledge that they are playing a game and the game play is created before they actual;y start playing. I'm not saying that the plot is fixed , it is quite the oposite.

I belive that the "game squid" scans the subconscience of the players, creating a combined mix of charater and plot development depending on what players belive, secretly want etc ... But once it is set, Player just live though it.

Complicated I know....
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Old Apr 29, 2002, 08:34 PM   #7
Simpleton
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Re: Underrated!

Hmmmmmm . . . .

I tend to agree with you, which depends on whether either of us are making any sense at this point. As far as the game storyline goes, I would suspect that's largely constructed out of how the lead player's subconscious interacts with certain preprogrammed themes and motifs in the game's . . . uh . . . software. Sort of like a Rorschache(sp?) test; the game has particular items that it throws at the player's subconscious, then it builds the tentative storyline out of what bounces back. At that point, the game probably niches out a spot for each player's character to be added. Given the variations of any particular group of players and story directions, the mechanics of who's added when and where would probably be a more technically challenging skill that actually writing the main storyline.

One point to ponder would be whether each VR player has their own storyline that intersects with the 'main story' that we (the movie audience) saw, or if they're mostly just passengers to the lead player's experience and only get to interact when their character is onstage. If the latter, then their individual choices would could make serious changes in direction. I tend to think the latter.

Come to think of it, the bit players might each be angling to become more important in the main storyline. Gas would be a good example of this. If Gas had gone along with Allegra's request and given Pikul a good interface, then he might have ended up providing a safe haven for them and been around the main storyline longer.
Instead, Gas gives Pikul a defective interface and tries to kill Allegra. IF he'd succeeded, then Allegra's exit would leave Pikul and Gas as the lead characters . . . which is to say, Gas . . . and then the storyline would probably have followed Gas' possession of the game pod as he tries to collect from the rival VR game corp. The themes of physical-versus-virtual would then play out as Gas tries to live out the dynamic hero role that he is in VR, with the possible discovery that he was never really more than just a decent mechanic.
So Gas tries to hijack the plot, and Gas dies. Pikul and Allegra continue on without him . . . creating an opportunity for another bit player to enter as a facilitating element for the lead player.

The bit players would be jockeying with each other, too. Perhaps the special at the Chinese restaurant wasn't really supposed to have a gun in it . . . . Then the Chinese Waiter would have been revealed as a contact and he'd have more of a role because he'd be interacting with Pikul and Allegra for a more extended time.
Instead, the Trout Farm Guy (name escapes me, sorry) tells Pikul to order the special and then plants a gun in the special, which is presumably going to trigger Pikul to killing someone. That way, Trout Farm Guy learns which side of the fence Pikul is on, as well as possibly booting another player from the game and increasing the size of his own role.
IF Pikul had actually killed Allegra at the restaurant, then the Chinese Waiter would be revealed as a contact who would presumably help him along. The story line then revolves around Pikul with Chinese Waiter sidekick.
BUT, Pikul kills the Chinese Waiter instead. The Chinese Waiter player gets booted out of the storyline and Trout Farm Guy becomes a major villain.

Criminy. Sounds like Cronenberg should be working on a videogame adaption. Or maybe I just have too much time on my hands.
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Old Apr 30, 2002, 04:04 AM   #8
Ivan
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Re: Underrated!

Quote:
One point to ponder would be whether each VR player has their own storyline that intersects with the 'main story' that we (the movie audience) saw, or if they're mostly just passengers to the lead player's experience and only get to interact when their character is onstage. If the latter, then their individual choices would could make serious changes in direction. I tend to think the latter.

I was wondering about that myself. What did happen to the caracters that didn't die but just went out of focus for Pikul and ALegra.

Do you remember the line at the end: " The game is over but I don't think some of our players realise it yet."

Could this be because the other players were actualy playing their own stories out and it was just a matter of who will complete it first. Could it be that every player has a diferent game goal and story line that diverge together. And who ever compleates his first is the winner. It is the same principle like in "Risk". Every palayer gets a secret goal (to conquer a specific teritory ) and who finishes first is the winner.

Quote:
Come to think of it, the bit players might each be angling to become more important in the main storyline. Gas would be a good example of this. If Gas had gone along with Allegra's request and given Pikul a good interface, then he might have ended up providing a safe haven for them and been around the main storyline longer.
Instead, Gas gives Pikul a defective interface and tries to kill Allegra. IF he'd succeeded, then Allegra's exit would leave Pikul and Gas as the lead characters . . . which is to say, Gas . . . and then the storyline would probably have followed Gas' possession of the game pod as he tries to collect from the rival VR game corp. The themes of physical-versus-virtual would then play out as Gas tries to live out the dynamic hero role that he is in VR, with the possible discovery that he was never really more than just a decent mechanic.
So Gas tries to hijack the plot, and Gas dies. Pikul and Allegra continue on without him . . . creating an opportunity for another bit player to enter as a facilitating element for the lead player.

But Do the players know that they are playing? DO they know their GOALs? Or are they just given a character background created by the storyline and left to act upon it with their real memory (from reality where they are actualy siting and playing the VR TransCendence) totaly ihibited. Leaving them to the "Transcendence Virtual reality" as their only "true reality"?

It sure seems that they are not aware that they are in the game. (Transcendence) while In existens they realise that they are just playing a game.

So to conclude.
1. There is subconsciencely created main plot and character outline for each player.
2. There is a memory blockage of players that play it in order to adopt the "game world" as True Reality.
3. Characters can Interact with the game but only out their "predefined character traits".
4. Each player gets its own individual goal.
5. Characters can develop thier story plot independently.
6. Who ever compleates its goal first, is the winer.
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Old May 6, 2002, 07:02 PM   #9
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Re: Underrated!

I think there really could only be one major storyline going on, revolving around somebody picked to play the lead character. Otherwise, the one guy in the last scene wouldn't have been *****ing because he got to do so little. Come to think of it, there would have to be two major players with lead characters, or else there really couldn't be a winner, unless it was reasonably expected that one of the minor characters would be able to displace the lead character and take over the lead position.

I don't think they're just living through it as passengers, though. Not much reason to have more than one player, then, if each player is just a passenger once the initial data is developed. A memory blockage means the player is not acting, reacting, or interacting, and so at the end they just have memories that belong to someone else. If the player has an awareness of their true reality behind the game reality, then they can 'transcend' because they have an awareness of how they could run and change someone else's life. The game TranScendence would thus be about amplifying your understanding of who you can be, rather than just letting you remember what it was like to be someone else for a while.
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Old Jul 12, 2006, 03:28 PM   #10
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Re: Underrated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpleton
I think there really could only be one major storyline going on, revolving around somebody picked to play the lead character. Otherwise, the one guy in the last scene wouldn't have been *****ing because he got to do so little. Come to think of it, there would have to be two major players with lead characters, or else there really couldn't be a winner, unless it was reasonably expected that one of the minor characters would be able to displace the lead character and take over the lead position.

I don't think they're just living through it as passengers, though. Not much reason to have more than one player, then, if each player is just a passenger once the initial data is developed. A memory blockage means the player is not acting, reacting, or interacting, and so at the end they just have memories that belong to someone else. If the player has an awareness of their true reality behind the game reality, then they can 'transcend' because they have an awareness of how they could run and change someone else's life. The game TranScendence would thus be about amplifying your understanding of who you can be, rather than just letting you remember what it was like to be someone else for a while.

hows this for a screamer

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Old Jul 12, 2006, 03:43 PM   #11
Ivan
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Re: Underrated!

Hello Bellablack,

Welcome to the forums, also please try to contribute with your own opinions in depth. One liners are not preferable and often considered spam.

Try to keep that in mind when posting, Since above post doesn't have any relevant connection to neither Existence nor this debate.
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Old Dec 5, 2010, 06:08 AM   #12
Wachesaw
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Re: Underrated!

This movie is pretty sweet. What's with the bad rep in this forum?
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