Are we who we are because of what we remember??

[BrOkEn_TuSk]

If you couldn't remember what happened yesterday or the day before that...then did yesterday even happen at all??

Does a persons memory make a person who he/she is??

These are the questions i started asking myself after watching Dark-City. In the movie the aliens replaced an entire city full of ppl with different memories every 12hrs or so (correct me if i'm wrong). Changing their complete character/personalities ie who they are.
so one day u could be a rich business man and then the next day u could be a homeless bum begging for fries on the coner of mcDonalds, And no-one would remember you ever being that rich guy.

this can get a lil too philosophical so bare with me here,

Are you who you think you are bcoz of what you can remember?

[BrOkEn_TuSk]

lol the bad thing about posting a thread under a movie title thats not that popular is no one reads it!! argh hehe if i posted this in the matrix forum..aahh now theres an idea

[Abyssal Super J]

broken tusk,
I'm thinking that from different perspectives, like us as viewers, looking into the alien's experimental world, there is always a constant time flow. Yes yesterday happened. But the breaks in people's lives with the new memories they probably had installed, the new yesterday happens again and again. This might have been a good question for a Blade Runner forum. The replicants had no true memories of their "childhoods"(sean young). But they were given pictures that gave them a foundation to base these things on. You know what's creepy? I can't remember some things from my childhood so I guess someone could pose the question did they really happen. We only have relatives that bring out those embarassing pictures at the most inoportune times!

Abyssal Super J.

[enyiekan]

yo broken tusk,

What do you think would happen to our existence if humans were made to remember everything? I would like to share a learning with you. Few say that excess removal of semen affects the capability of the human mind to function extraordinarily, would you say that true? reply.

[BrOkEn_TuSk]

excess removal of semen affects the capability of the human mind to function extraordinarily?? *giggles*

let me get this straight first? u mean semen? as in..ya know. Well i wouldn't totally agree with that enyiekan. Most people believe that the release of sexual tension actually relaxes and clears up the mind, allowing people to think about other important issues rather than thinking about sex all the time. Its perfectly normal, its a human thing.

The ancient chinese believed that if you spilt your "life force" (semen) it would reduce your life span. Breathing was also apart of their "life force" beliefs. If you breathed too fast u would be using up all your "life force" thus you'd die earlier than most, i think this relates to Tai Chei some how (if thats how you spell it). Anyways i'm getting off track here

If ppl did remember every single detail of their lives it'd be hell ppl would be bugging me to pay them back. No one would forgive ya for the bad things you've done in the past. Your mind would literally explode. It'd be full of useless facts. Thats why most ppl only remember things that are important to them. Or block out or try to forget painful memories.
But i can also see an upside.Being able to remember math equations, formulas; The world would be full of more intelligent ppl. we'd come up with solutions for most of the worlds problems. sure we'd be a more technologically advanced civilisation but i think most of us would be mentally unstable...remembering things we dont want to remember, all the bad and horrible things that are out there.

"we have the power to forget"
-Sphere


I'm glad we're made the way we are.

[Ivan]

Even though It may sound scary I think that the answer to the question (Are we who we think we are because of what we remember ?) Is YES.
All your ideas motives and thoughts , from the date you were born to the date that you will die are in fact nothing but consequence of external enviorment. And through your senses you recive the singnals you (don't) act uppon . The question will you or will you not act is decided by your personality already build up to that moment. The next expirience always adds another "flawour" (eg. the decision to act on something or not) to your personality.
Just ask yourself a simple question:

Is there anything I think, belive or do that is not just a result of what I've heard, read, seen etc. ?

Because after all these are only informations we recive through our sences. Even The most profound words are in fact just sound. The way you will interpret them is another thing, but what they really are is sound. So there is no other way to define ourselves but a sum of our memories which made us what we are today (our goals, psychological condition, religious and other life agenda ..)

[enyiekan]

Sex does not relax the mind, it gets it excited. and when the mind is excited it cannot settle down, concentrate and get work done. E.g. Imagine the aliens having sex, they would be so excited that cuening would be labored because their brain is concentrating on something else. they would not concentrate properly. And i think that when one can stay without sex for let's say-9 months, he would notice certain improvement in the working of his brain. Not that removal of semen makes one a dullard, but you won't be extraordinarily smart anymore. and the excess of that semen would return back to brain as protein and fix other things up. If not why do they advise patients to stay away from sex. and when excess protein is lost, you forget almost everything as time goes on.

later,
man.

[BrOkEn_TuSk]

this rates about a 9.5 on my weird sh*t-O-meter. what the hell are you on about enyiekan?? does it have anything to do with the ALiens from Dark city at all??

And sex is healthy for you. Trust me i've been studing P.D/health for 2 years already. And its not sex thats a distraction its the tention that builds up bcoz of sexual tention. (shesh)

and how does anything you've posted relate to the question in this thead?

sorry i'm sounding a lil "mean"...lets just not get sidetracked k.

[Hell Spawn]

We are not a creation of our memories. Past experiences may change the way we think, or phylsopshies, but under the premise we are our memories, no one could ever get ahead. I think gattaca proves this point to a high extend when it has a quote at the end of the movie i think is by Ayn Rand. The quotes is that "There is no gene for the human spirit." we live in the present not in the past, and the point of our exsistence in the present is to aspire towards the future. Ever looked at people that live in the past? Everything new is "wrong" the past is important but it does not define our present situation. Now you are all saying "Wait spawny, remember the movie, people could love each other in a matter of minutes because of the injected memories." My response is the rreason the aliens experiment was so affective was because thye would change them up in matter of hrs. The people ddi not get the time to take in the current situation and think about it. Science has proven that there is a homosexual gene. Now letsay the alien had given a homosexual man the memories of heterosexual relationships, is that going to change the way that he feels? No. How bout this example, letsay that the aliens take a complete dumby who hates school and doesnt like it because of their ADD. Now if the aliens give the dumby memories of being top of the class, and going to college and etc, that the person is going to magically start doing well? Absorb that shiznit for a while.l

[zombie84]

i would agree with Ivanhoe and say that we are who we are because of our memories, but to a certain extent.
Our memories arent us, but they are part of us. They shape the way we think. Our experiences change and shape our personality, our morals, our behavior and our lives. How different would you be if you were sexually abused a child? Or if you witnessed the brtutal murder of your parents? or if your father was priest? or if you grew up in Africa? Or if you were a police officer? or if you had gone to jail? All of these things, these experiences, these memories, shape the way we function and the way we think, and therefore are part of who we are. Parts of us will remain the same throughout because sometimes are brains are just wired that way, but our memories, and consequently, our experiences, govern who we are much more than anything else. That is why people who were abused as children, or whos parents were divorced, are more likely to rebel against the law.

[BrOkEn_TuSk]

As sad as it may seem and as special as we humans like to think we all are, there may not be metaphisical world; there is no after life, no "i'm me bcoz there is something special inside me that makes me unique".
-Could man have created god?
(i'll start a thread somewhere else)

Basically all i'm saying is people are a product of their envirnoment, the society in which their born into. Personalities,morals,religion (or in my case lack of religion ) , psychological condition etc can be sumed up under experiences i.e memories.

Our memories arent us, but they are part of us. They shape the way we think. Our experiences change and shape our personality, our morals, our behavior and our lives.

Yes this is true but what if we were to change ur memory? Say we erased a trumatic moment in ur life. Your entire personality may change. Do you see what i'm getting at?

[Ivan]

I tend to belive that our universe is just a complex simulation. Given the begining parameters of the tinniest elements and the rules about how they interact you could predict exactly how will it develop. Taking in consideration the enviorment and (when developed) effects of beings. Each Pearsons Decisions can be predicted if we know the summary of its expirience up to the moment that we want to predict. His priorites are the main thing that makes him do (or not do) something and those priorities are a mixture of his biological mental capacity and the effects of his enviorment had on him, up to that moment.

Yes Tusk ... Changing memmories will change personalities .... Just to go back on Dark City .... the reason Murdosk didn't became a murderer he was intended to be, is because his "new" memory was never inserted. All other caracters follow the rule of memmory driven personalites.

[HighWiredSith]

This discussion reminds me of the use of implanted memories in Blade Runner. Memories were used to better control replicants because it allowed them to better understand who they were, even if the memories weren't real and created a sort of emotional reference. Memories of our past define how we react to our present and how we will prepare for our future. Without memories, replicants act in unpredictable ways.
Just a thought.

The answer to the question "Are we nothing more than the sum of our memories?" depends on you religous views.

If you are a 'rationalist', the answer has to be "yes", because there is no evidence to the contrary. Also, this answer seems intuative.

If you believe in the soul, then the answer has to be "no", since what else is the brain for except responding to stimuli, regulating the body, and storing memories. The soul is left with the job of creating the sense of 'self', the personality, and of carrying out self-consious interactions with the world.

However the interesting thing, as I see it, is that the answer to this -- and many other -- questions is that the answer does not matter. So long as you continue to act as though your actions have repurcussions, reality is cohesive, and you own desires are important, then it is unimportant wether you are under the control of a God given soul or a vastly complex lump of matter, since either way you cannot know for certain -- until you die :-)

And on the other topic of this thread, remember the case of Erdos, one of the greatest mathematical minds ever. He once said that he could not stand "the sexual experience". So maby it is not that nerds cannot get laid, merely that they do not want to as much as normal folk.

[Ivan]

The answer to the question "Are we nothing more than the sum of our memories?" depends on you religous views.

If you are a 'rationalist', the answer has to be "yes", because there is no evidence to the contrary. Also, this answer seems intuative.

If you believe in the soul, then the answer has to be "no", since what else is the brain for except responding to stimuli, regulating the body, and storing memories. The soul is left with the job of creating the sense of 'self', the personality, and of carrying out self-consious interactions with the world.

This is not necessarily true. Take me for example. I belive in a soul like essence that posses life forms but still I belive that all life forms in our universe are predictable simulations. For one thing I see the "soul" more as a perceiver of life in our universe rather then an actual participant.
It is just like watching a movie. The movie itself is just a sequence of images. But it takes a viewer to experience it .